New defender haters gonna hate..........

I'm a die-hard old school Defender tragic (and prefer the Series tbh) but...for putting my family in and expecting my wife to drive, I bought a D2.

I expected to HATE the new Defender but...looks flipping awesome.

To all the people complaining that it won't be as good off-road, or as tough as the old one - have you not read what LR put it through in testing??

I'm part way through watching this 2 hour video.
YouTube

Lots of lovely old LR's to enjoy. Up to the bit where he muses on the future of the Wrangler and G-Wagon and if there was any point in LR making the new Defender anything like them. He's already pondered the wisdom (and pitfalls) of either keeping or retiring the Defender name.

Would I buy a new Defender if I could afford it? Absolutely...if our experience with the D2's hadn't somewhat soured my wife towards the brand.

I remember when people said the D3 was gonna be too soft and no good off road. They were wrong and had to eat their words. I predict the same thing will happen with the new Defender. The tyres and airbags will be fine and the critics will have to eat their words.

Quite a number of good AT tyres available in 275/65/18, including the BFG AT.

275/65 R18 Tyres | Tyresales

Cannot find the link to the story however did find one which was questioning why the new defender had not been tested in Australia. Their point being the the Mercedes G wagon failed when tested in Australia so why had the new defender not been given a similar test to ensure is not going to fail the same as such a failure would destroy the marque in Australia where there is a residual opinion based on experience with Land Rover in the sixties that is still carried by the brand.

I read interesting article unfortunately couldn’t cut and paste it. Basically JLR admitted that outgoing Defender was unsafe, pretty uncomfortable, not the most reliable - and most importantly- very few people wanted one. They could not afford to replicate that and survive. I suspect that it will be way more competent than we’d think off road. As others have said the ability of D3/D4 L322/l320 Offroad has proven to be much better than many thought. The most important question already asked on here is - will the reliability be any good? It can’t afford not to be given lack of dealers, or people that will be able or willing to service one.

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Originally Posted by bob10

...One thing that stood out for me was the article that when they wanted to demonstrate the recovery points, which are behind covers which need to be removed before you can use them, and upon being told to get the ' defender' really bogged, it took 5 hours for the recovery. Now, this isn't a criticism of the new vehicle, but surely it highlights how little research was done in actual off road situations....

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I think you may have miss-read this one one Bob, it happened while testing the product, not during a demonstration. They were explaining that the due to testing program they did pick this up as an issue resulting in better access on the final product:

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16 - Recovery points

As they are on many modern Land Rovers, recovery points are hidden behind styling fascias, requiring their removal to access them. Engineers headed for the mud of Eastnor Castle in England – a famous Land Rover test facility – to test the recovery points of the new Defender. With the aim of getting the car bogged, the head of the accessories program, Sean Henstridge, then instructed his team to remove the quarter turn fixings attaching the plastic fascias to then expose the recovery points. It took five hours to recover the car, prompting the development of an accessory front cover that leaves the lashing points exposed.

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Additionally Land Rover specifically state that coverings for recovery points should be removed before going off road anyway. In the test case above, I believe they were trying to test worst case scenarios where drivers don't take the time to understand their vehicles and go blindly into things. It's also why they do much of their testing with low profile tyres...they are wanting to make it as difficult as possible for the car by using the worst tyre/rim combinations to ensure it can still perform with those limitations.

Recovery points at the rear seem in a decent position to me:
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"However the new Defender hasn't been designed for anything more than being an upper middle class [ high income earner] plaything"

I'm amazed at wild statements such as this, I'm guessing its based on..

*Factory recovery points that no previous Defender had.
*Approach, departure, ground clearance, gearing, equal or better than previous Defenders.
*Larger capacity fuel tank than previous Defenders.
*Centre front row seat option that was dropped in previous model Defenders.
*Deeper fording depth than previous Defenders.
*Better traction control than previous Defenders.

I'm sure there will be many more things the new Defender will do far better than the old model.
It might even be reliable and put together properly.

But dont hold your breathe [tonguewink]

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

I remember when people said the D3 was gonna be too soft and no good off road. They were wrong and had to eat their words. I predict the same thing will happen with the new Defender. The tyres and airbags will be fine and the critics will have to eat their words.

Quite a number of good AT tyres available in 275/65/18, including the BFG AT.

275/65 R18 Tyres | Tyresales

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You're missing my point here Mick :) The old Defender has serious off road capability, superior to nearly every other 4WD including the Discos/RR's etc with the trade off being a certain 'lack of refinement' shall we say :). Again, by off road I'm referring to actually off the road or bush driving, a capability the old Defender has 'in spades'. The new Defender does not have this capability and as such is now 'back with the pack' potentially no better or no worse than any other comparable medium duty 4WD or SUV. Putting the advertising hype aside it's actually worse off as it's a totally unproven product regardless of various paid endorsements by motoring personalities and the like.

The new Defender may set a new marque in automotive excellence as the RR Classic did in its day but it is not and never can be (by design) a seriously off road capable 4WD like the old Defender. ie. I just can't see Len Beadell jumping into his new Defender and heading off into the Great Sandy Desert with any expectation of actually getting it to the other side. :)

And no Mick, the tyres and airbags won't be OK in a bush driving scenario such as I've outlined as they're not designed/manufactured to do so. I've no doubt they're perfectly capable of doing a good job on the roads and tracks etc they've been designed for (not withstanding the usual Land Rover cock ups :) ) but in the serious stuff, not a chance.

On a more positive note perhaps Land Rover will come up with a more conventional coil setup for the 130 ? though monocoque construction, tiny engine, auto only will surely be a dis-incentive for a potential off road/bush driving buyer. Perhaps there's too few of us left out there to worry about ? :(, but one thing is for sure, the new Defender is certainly not on my list for this type of work. Maybe for use as a conventional 4WD/SUV in my dotage but certainly not in the serious stuff. The Toyota 79 series has this sand pit all to itself now but whether it's an economic market or not I don't know.

Deano :)

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Originally Posted by DeanoH

The Toyota 79 series has this sand pit all to itself now but whether it's an economic market or not I don't know.

Deano :)

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Definatly not an economic market to sell to as the old defender sales showed. Plus 70 series don't exactly sell big volumes worldwide and Australia is one of the biggest markets for them. That would be the number one competitor in that segment. Why would anyone build something to compete in that market - its guaranteed to fail.

argh... the uninformed BS is rolling now.
its not designed to do, its a city vehicle, bluh bluh.
A few weeks ago at a BBQ (yes I try to avoid people on a social level) some **** was new to the mining sector up north so he had all these years of experience in stories to tell. He stated the 79 series Cruiser was not as good as the older ones, "its more of a city vehicle".

I felt the need to correct him in stating, the 79 had more power torque, was lower geared, disc brakes on the rear, better all round and he was a dickhead.

Of course I wouldnt call any AULRO member a dickhead [tonguewink]

DONT WORRY IF YOU DONT LIKE THE NEW DEFENDER, THERE ARE PLENTY OF OLD ONES LEFT (they just arent as good)