The New Defender

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Originally Posted by 100inch

Agree with what you say but JLR has no interest to join big fleet rebate structures and that is including Army fleet (not SVO type) contracts. This is also to protect future values and the brand. Yes, they have to sell volume but not at every price. There is a reason brands like Toyota and Nissan trying to establish 'premium' brands with more or less success. Future will tell. m

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100% agree. Defender won’t be a serious threat to other makes, but they need to steal enough sales from other makes to make investment viable. Otherwise they really have missed the mark with new Defender.

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Originally Posted by AK83

Currently, I know 2.
both brothers in laws.

One chippie runs a 20+ yo MB140.
Asked him why, and not a ute-tray-chassis vehicle ... as said security and can't be bothered to unload every night/morning.
And a large van like a sprinter or trafic hold a ton more stuff, and more importantly keeps the stuff dry(eg. plaster)

Other one is an elec has had 3 utes with bodies, and he's spent more on the various body on the back than it'd have cost him to just be smart and get a van to begin with.
Nice chap, but not the smartest cookie, and occasionally needs to run a trailer too. He's more than capable to build his own storage system .. just the typical mindset of the regular joe tradie .. they all seem to use utes .. so utes must be better! [bighmmm]

I also went through it (when I was a courier) thinking that a ute may net me more $s at work. It kind'a did, but overall not.
I used to be an express courier, not the DHL/Toll/Couriers please type, where you'd get a run with a load of stuff and so on.
Mine was get a job(or two or three) and go .. express service, basically ASAP.
I used to notice when I was a motorbike courier that the ute guys used to get some good work because sometimes they'd get a tray job(eg. a pallet) and jobs would be allocated in grouped areas. So some other good(high paying) jobs would go with the tray work too.
After my accident, had to continue in a car vehicle, ended up deciding a ute(dual cab) was the way to go. WRONG!
While the tray job paid well for the job itself, they all ended up being hand unloading .. takes time to deliver 80 cartons up 20 flights of stairs .. say an hour. While you got paid for the unload, it wasn't worth the $ per hour compared to missing out on the rest of the work coming and going in that time .. so the reality was that the benefit of easy pallet loading and higher paying initial work in fact wasn't.
Later we got a brilliant customer that required medical deliveries to hospitals, and needed to be both enclosed and secure .. no way to do easy on a tray/ute .. so missed out on heaps of very high paying work whilst I had the Rodeo.
Ended up pinching dads Frontera(wagon) and started to get a lot of this medical work(as they were based 30sec around the corner form my house!

Utes look macho/tough/whatever .. vans far more practical in 'every day'(ie. 90% of the work that commercial vehicles need to do.

Not saying that utes(or trays) aren't useful, they obviously are . eg. a crane job can usually only be done off a tray/ute sometimes .. but sometimes workarounds can be had .. but how many ute drivers can really say their work involves crane lifts?

I can't imagine a commerical Defer sold here. Never say never tho. .. eg, if they can strip it to a point where it comes under the luxury tax limit or something.

In some European countries it works due to tax breaks. I sometimes watch a Youtuber called Tirsbaek(or similar) they sometimes elaborate. Very specific regs tho .. No of seats, cage behind driver .. etc. But they save many thousands of their currencies in road tax and purchase price .. hence why they exist over there.

Of the vans I've driven: old AB(I think) 120 Inter. Bedford, old(80's) transits .. all of which you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy. Trying to keep it on the straight and narrow was a harder then the loading/unloading.
Toyota Hiace bus(no seats, for general deliveries) .. most unreliable vehicle ever known. Had some fuel issue(dunno), and everything fuel related was renewed on it. Nice to drive(quietish when loaded) just would stop on 'ya for no reason, yet no mechanic could figure it out.
These weren't mine, just driven for friends family work.
Had brothers Mazda E1600(SWB) .. another horrid vehicle, in a dynamic sense. When unloaded would snap it's rear end out at the slightest chance of the teeniest bump in a road. And once got 'bogged' in a paved downhill driveway, simply because I went in nose first not realising no where to turn to get back out. Had to call a towie to pull it out. Otherwise OK to drive.

Best vans were the independently sprung Hiace(first models in the early 90's .. very nice. Better than my Falcon at the time. And those W series Mitsis, also drove nice.
Last vans I've driven.. late model Transits [thumbsupbig] and a super long wheelbase Trafic. 2.5t, 3 pallet load for a piddly 4 cyl motor pulled quite OK. nice and smooth too.

As an example of where I could imagine a commercial stripped out cheapest > $65K Defer could be of some value could be to farmers or any outback/horrid road commercial environment.
Having a vehicle that doesn't buck and kick at ya for hours on end on a typical Aussie back road .. just makes for less fatiguing day.

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Good read, thanks for the real world examples, my mates include electrician, pool fencer, gyprocker,sparky appliance installers x2 all have vans

Utes include gyprocker and carpenter.

If you park near sticky fingers at night and cary stuff that can get wet, a van or wagon 4x4 can be a good work option.

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Originally Posted by blackrangie

If you park near sticky fingers at night and cary stuff that can get wet, a van or wagon 4x4 can be a good work option.

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For the work we do,Commercial refrigeration,and some AC work,a van is the best work vehicle but an absolute country mile,nothing comes close.

Most want dual cab utes so they can carry the kids around after hours and holidays,but a small 1.8x1.6 tray is useless for us,even if it has a canopy.

Working out of a van is sooo easy,sliding door,etc.
Shut the door,after market alarm,very safe,out of the weather.
Lifting up heavy compressors,some weigh close to 180KG,90KG refrigerant bottles,no worries,the tray is so low,unlike a ute.
Racks down both sides,carry heaps of parts,tools,etc.

The other thing with a van is they have such a small turning circle,they are very easy to park.
But they do have a lot of sheet metal,so are always getting scratches and little dings.


One issue,though if carrying LPG canisters,acetylene,etc,they have to be in sealed containers vented to the outside of the vehicle,a mandatory requirement.

Geez,we are way off topic here,now what was this thread about?[bighmmm][biggrin]

FWIW Paul, I go along with all the above. Not that you need my endorsment. [smilebigeye] Had two Hi-Aces 1xSWB & 1xLWB & they fitted the bill nicely.

Oxy Acet venting? Just stowed on their carriage on the LH side at the rear door near the internal pressed panel grilles to outside. Nothing fancy back then. R22 near door on RH side. Other **** on RH side. Heavy tools in ammo boxes adjacent to side sliding door. No mesh behind driver.[bigsad]

I do have to say tho, I do see RR's point of view with the load of premix(and other such uses) .. so of course utes and trays all have their uses when the need arises.

Other example of how to completely stuff up in having the 'appropriate' vehicle was about 20 years ago when I stabbed our fridge(de-icing .. I thought I had it under control, but seems I'm not handy with a carving knife)

Anyhow fridge lost its gas late in the arvo Friday night. AHhhh!

Told wife, I'll get new one, with a new bubs we needed one anyhow .. I got the ute .. I got this.
Went into a store near by, looked a fridges, asks two questions ... what the difference between this one with water taps and that one with water taps, and what's the warranty.
This sales guy talked himself into giving me a discount! I had no interest in listening to him .. I just wanted to get a fridge home that night(or ASAP).
In my stupidity in ignoring salesman, I also ignored his offer for $25 delivery of fridge tomorrow.

Now I have fridge in the back of the ute .. simply because I could .. but how the hell do I get it off the ute and into kitchen .. on my own! .. at about 7 or 8PM.

So sometimes having the appropriate tool for the job(so top speak gets you into more trouble that you may have asked for.
For similar reasons, I won't ever do gravel in the back of the ute, cos it takes weeks to get rocks out of boxes intended for deliver to legal firms .. and so on.

Just do it in a trailer(and stuff like that).

But I do get it .. utes can be handy. trailer can be bothersome.
Watched a Youtube of Ronny Dahl the other day, where he went on for an hour on the merits of not using trailer, and then using trailer .. travelling light and stuff.
All obvious stuff(which I knew anyhow) but interesting to watch others learning for themselves and or the hard way .. what's appropriate and also not, at the same time.

But the real point of my reply wasnt if the ute was appropriate for me, or you, or any other bloke out there .. more about the statistics of what LR have to actually deal with. More on trying to point out why it makes sense that one hasn't surfaced.
I'd be pretty confident that if 10K Aussies placed pre orders for a new defender ute/tray/dual cab .. there'd be one in short notice.

Actually can't see why they couldn't have done that, other than the fact that they're not a 'start up'(I hate this term, but you get the drift). Rivian and others seem to be selling their wares by good will, and people seem to be flocking to them.
If LR had at least one millienial in the marketing dept, concocting an app to sell new defender utes via social media .. or whatever it is that this generation seem to want .. there'd be a good chance you could have ordered one.

Totally get it Arthur

Maybe I came across a little heavy
My point is I have never really cared that JLR made a swag of irrelevant to me SUVs
We almost bought an Evoque when they came out as they are just plain sexy.
JLR pricing structure is however a bit of joke compared to the market for essentially a non-unique vehicle.

I have always appreciated that JLR did also make a line of workhorse utes 110&130 that did NOT pander to the cashed up tradie chicks Ute market. Just solid HD with massive load ratings low fuel burn and character by the uteload.

My beef is JLR can do what they want but “I” Wanted a continuation of honouring the workhorse market. I don’t want a Toyota I want a Landrover and I want my son to be able to drive Landies too. A Real Landy with a tray!

Steve

There is not one person on the planet considering a Suburban that would buy a Defender. You are clueless to the US market.

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Originally Posted by Red90

There is not one person on the planet considering a Suburban that would buy a Defender. You are clueless to the US market.

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True - the New Defender is targeting those that would no longer consider getting something as big as the Suburban.

The days of the old school full size 4WD with big V8 are limited but still seem to have a strong place in the US market.

Will be interesting to see in each market who the 4WD magazines select when doing side by side comparisons.

In the US will they put the New Defender alongside other luxury European SUVs like from BMW, Audi, JLR, or put it along side the US built large SUVs from Ford, Jeep, or Chev?

Or will they see it as competing with the Japanese 4WD’s?

Or do they not even see it in the same market as the luxury or large SUV’s which are at the same price point? Maybe it is all about the most cup holders and USB charging points - heh heh.

It’s a crowded market with so much choice these days. Getting it right in the US seems to be important for JLR.

Just spoke to a QLD dealer, who said entry level 110 will probably be early $80s drive away. So similar pricing to an entry level D5, currently for about that price (incl dual range). But the D5 gets the more powerful sd4.

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Originally Posted by DiscoDB

...... Getting it right in the US seems to be important for JLR.

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This has been important for most UK car manufacturers since the 1940s. Few have been successful at it, although Rover, with the Rangerover was one of the more successful, so it is hardly surprising that it is seen as important.

The US market is very large compared to the Australian market, so it is hardly surprising that they regard it as more important.