Video reviews

Rick the tottering is the word I was looking for. In my mind I described it was being on its tip toes or Pointe but not in a graceful way. Hardly a ballerina.

I had forgotten about the big difference in tyres on that test. I have HT 31 inch on my Triton and 31 inch Duratracs on my D2. Stark grip difference...so this makes the Merc's extra ability off-road in these variety of climbs very solid.

Cheers

I was also wondering what tyre pressures they were running, we all know what a difference that can make.

The Defender would have been far more capable, not just a little more capable, if it had the rear e-diff so IMO it was silly to have such a hard-core comparison without it.

They may well run it again Graeme with a locker. I agree but reckon it still won't beat the G Wagen. Put Duratracs on the G Wagen and the G Wagen would be further ahead again.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by SBD4

Excellent technical comparison. I would add a couple of things, for the break over test he obviously didn't know how to engage the super extended mode...still might not have succeeded but would have been fun to see. Perhaps he should have had the G do the same tests without front and rear lockers to highlight how good LRs ETC is and finally he perhaps should have done the test with a Defender that was equipped with rear locker.

On the face of it a great demonstration of the differences between ETC and fully locked vehicle. No doubt there's less fuss with the G.

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Yes, it would've been good just to compare the ETC systems on both, but the G has always had Lockers

A fellow on YouTube did a few vids on his D2 claiming an ATB was useless.
He cross axled the car over a ditch in the snow, disabled the TC, unlocked the centre diff and when it sat there wheel spinning the unloaded wheel, proclaimed the ATB useless. [emoji849]
Funnily enough the car drove out with the centre diff locked and the TC fuse back in, so it wouldn't make sense to test the G without engaging the lockers, they are there stock, but an extra cost option on the Deefer.

MB has always fitted lockers to the G, and more power to them for continuing to do so.
I'm guessing the cost of the hardware (lockers) would outweigh the software development costs of TC over a production cycle?
I think it appears to come down to a difference in engineering design philosophy between the two marques.

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Originally Posted by SBD4

Excellent technical comparison. I would add a couple of things, for the break over test he obviously didn't know how to engage the super extended mode...still might not have succeeded but would have been fun to see. Perhaps he should have had the G do the same tests without front and rear lockers to highlight how good LRs ETC is and finally he perhaps should have done the test with a Defender that was equipped with rear locker.

On the face of it a great demonstration of the differences between ETC and fully locked vehicle. No doubt there's less fuss with the G.

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I agree, I'm not sure it even bottomed out/touched the ground in that ramp over test, I don't know how similar the TR(2) is to a Discovery's as it should've have gone Super Extended.

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Originally Posted by rick130

One of the things I dislike with the air suspension is the lack of droop travel when raised, but you'd need the travel of Trophy Truck to get around it.
The teeter tottering would annoy me.
It reminded me of a stock 130 without a load in the rear, lifting wheels and lurching when crossed up.

I love how the old Rangies without anti roll bars articulate, the chassis stays relatively level and wheels move up and down.
Jeep's CJ's prior to 1975, all the way back to the military MB would do the same, it just made for a comfortable, controllable off road experience.

I was surprised at how the loose stuff caught out the TC a little, and how much more controllable the G was even with HT's vs the Wrangler AT's of the Deefer.
I wonder how even having an ATB in the rear diff would reduce the wheel spin in that situation? [emoji848]

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Rear diff lock or LSD makes heaps of difference. With the Patrol eg..the LSD is capable of launching the car off one rear wheel..same with the locked diff. The LR TC is very very good but simply can't match a locked diff esp up hill on loose surfaces..hence it scrambles...it gets there just looks messy.

Wrg to droop..you really don't need it with TC or lockers. Looks neater but functionally it is not needed for traction if the TC works well or LSD/lockers are engaged. Under body clearance is far more important to avoid hanging up which will cease momentum and do damage to the underbody and drive train. Big lifts and massive suspension travel are old school😎

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Originally Posted by SBD4

for the break over test he obviously didn't know how to engage the super extended mode

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IIRC extended and super-extended modes are selectable on the Defender and pretty much confirmed when the tester lowered the vehicle a little as lowering from OR2 to OR1 is not a user option, instead strictly speed controlled with only raising from OR1 to OR2 a user option if the vehicle was lowered from OR2 automatically.

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Originally Posted by INter674

Rear diff lock or LSD makes heaps of difference. With the Patrol eg..the LSD is capable of launching the car off one rear wheel..same with the locked diff. The LR TC is very very good but simply can't match a locked diff esp up hill on loose surfaces..hence it scrambles...it gets there just looks messy.

Wrg to droop..you really don't need it with TC or lockers. Looks neater but functionally it is not needed for traction if the TC works well or LSD/lockers are engaged. Under body clearance is far more important to avoid hanging up which will cease momentum and do damage to the underbody and drive train. Big lifts and massive suspension travel are old school[emoji41]

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I'll disagree with the last sentence, although I'm not into big lifts, two wheels on an end still driving gives control and more traction than dangling one wheel.

For extreme examines have a look at anything put together by Bill Larman. Shame Bill doesn't post here anymore.

And yes, the old Patrol H233 and H260 LSD's are bloody good.
Miles better than Toyota's offerings which were often worn out on the drive home from picking up the new car, or so most felt.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by INter674

Rear diff lock or LSD makes heaps of difference. With the Patrol eg..the LSD is capable of launching the car off one rear wheel..same with the locked diff. The LR TC is very very good but simply can't match a locked diff esp up hill on loose surfaces..hence it scrambles...it gets there just looks messy.

Wrg to droop..you really don't need it with TC or lockers. Looks neater but functionally it is not needed for traction if the TC works well or LSD/lockers are engaged. Under body clearance is far more important to avoid hanging up which will cease momentum and do damage to the underbody and drive train. Big lifts and massive suspension travel are old school[emoji41]

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The Merc of course didn't have a big lift but it's got decent travel and the live axle causes huge force through the wheel in the hole...cross linked air suspension simulates that but it's not quite the same... so live axles, lockers and decent clearance still wins off road. On Road sure it's a different story no argument there.

Cheers