Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 30

Thread: Cruisemaster's view of the new Defender as a heavy tow vehicle

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    3,807
    Total Downloaded
    0

    Cruisemaster's view of the new Defender as a heavy tow vehicle

    Short story is it does not cut it for them. They acquired a 110 to evaluate it as the tow vehicle for their outback suspension testing work. They are moving it on. They don't necessarily bag it but it just does not suit their purposes for towing 3500kg / 350kg ball weight work.

    Interesting video.

    2011 D4 3.0 SDV6
    1999 D2 V8, in heaven
    1984 RRC, in hell

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Brisbane West
    Posts
    7,274
    Total Downloaded
    0
    Video reviews

    Last few posts discuss the review.

    Cheers

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Perth, WA
    Posts
    2,411
    Total Downloaded
    0
    See page 18 and 19 on the link. It has some of the earlier vids.
    Life is just a series of obstacles preventing you from taking a nap.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    23
    Total Downloaded
    0
    So, I am seriously considering changing over our Disco MY15 SD6 to a D300 Defender but have been following the comments in the "Video Reviews" thread regarding Cruisemaster's review.
    I regularly tow a 17' Bushtracker with 320kg on the ball fully loaded. There is usually not much extra gear in the car when we tour with the van.
    My problem will be the rear axle capacity.
    Looking at a 5 seater this is 1,800kg but is 1,900kg for the 7 seater. Yes, you could remove the 3rd row of seats as I have done in the D4 but currently the 7 seater is only available with 3 zone climate control etc adding quite a few $s to the cost.
    Does anyone know if there is any physical difference in the running gear between the 5 and 7 seat versions or is the rear axle capacity only greater because JLR say so? If there is no actual difference how do I go about getting the 5 seater increased?
    I suppose at the end of the day this would probably end up costing more time and $s than the increase for the 7 seater anyway.
    Any thoughts?
    Thanks, Jock.
    Cheers, Jock
    MY22 L663 110 D250 Pangea Green White Roof fully kitted
    MY15 D4 SDV6 SE, Fuji White - sold Nov 2021

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    392
    Total Downloaded
    0
    Jock, I've been puzzling over similar questions. Nobody has yet claimed that anything is different in the suspension or chassis etc between the 5 seat and 7 seat versions, let alone the 4cyl vs 6cyl engine variants. My current best guess is that it has to do with weight distribution – small humans aren't especially light but they also create a whole lot of empty space around them which means the heavier things would be further forward in the vehicle, helping keep the front wheels down. Similarly, the heavier engine moves the centre of mass forward which would allow more payload further back.

    I'd love to get an engineer to consider whether my bull bar and winch actually justify an increased GVM on my D240, given the hold-down-the-front-wheels effect they'll be having.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Brisbane,some of the time.
    Posts
    13,643
    Total Downloaded
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Jock McD View Post
    If there is no actual difference how do I go about getting the 5 seater increased?

    Any thoughts?
    Thanks, Jock.
    An engineer is the one to talk to, one who does this type of thing with other vehicles.
    Lots of hoops to jump through, vehicle will need replating,etc.

    Whether this is classed as a GVM upgrade I don't know,if it is, its monocoque design could be an issue.
    Paul

    D2,D2,D2a,D4,'09 Defender 110(sons), all moved on.

    '56 S1,been in the family since...'56
    Comes out of hibernation every few months for a run

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Brighton, Vic
    Posts
    434
    Total Downloaded
    0

    Their measurements

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferret View Post
    Short story is it does not cut it for them. They acquired a 110 to evaluate it as the tow vehicle for their outback suspension testing work. They are moving it on. They don't necessarily bag it but it just does not suit their purposes for towing 3500kg / 350kg ball weight work.

    Interesting video. Please excuse the rant and thanks for the link!

    A couple of things about their review did disturb me.

    Firstly, how real is the need for a winch on a vehicle which tows a 3.5 tonne trailer?

    Secondly, putting a winch and bull bare would take the weight off the rear axle.

    Thirdly, why would one need to put on heavier tyres when the vehicle is far superior off road than it's competition?

    Fourthly, did they measure the weights on both axles with the engine running, or was the engine turned off?

    And some other thing: 150kg tow ball issues rang a bell with me ... here is what was said about the D4 and its towing weight:

    " From the manual:
    If the vehicle is loaded to the maximum Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW), the nose weight of the multi-height drop plate tow ball is limited to 150 kg, so that the maximum rear axle weight is not exceeded. To increase the nose weight to the maximum 250 kg, the GVW should be reduced by 100 kg.

    and
    Australia only: The nose weight must be a minimum of 7% of the gross caravan/trailer weight, up to a maximum of 250 kg. When using the detachable trailer hitch receiver, see FITTING THE DETACHABLE TRAILER HITCH RECEIVER (Australia only), the nose weight can be increased to 350 kg if the GVW is reduced by 200 kg. "

    So, for Australia, the 150kg for D4 towing, referred to the fact that Australian D4s had an inclusion of 150kg already allowed for the tow ball weight. Which means, if you put 350 kg on the rear ball, you would then take 150kg OFF THE GVM of the D4 ie add only 250kg to the D4's GVM if you added 350kg to the rear tow ball ....

    It seems to me its possible, that this 150kg issue, is similar to the issue the D4 had about its tow ball weight? Possible the CEO of Land Rover Australia, might not know ... sadly, it would not surprise me if something has confused issues, was happened back with the D4???

    My Toyota bitch: I looked at buying one of their vans (I had a Prado 150 Kakadu and Cruisemaster said a 200 Landcruiser was the vehicle to choose outside of getting big US 6.5 litre diesel V8 - but the owner of Cruisemaster (then at least) emailed me and said the D4 did not work on their trailers, as the Land Rover's trailer stability system was not compatible with their own auxiliary stabiliser setup - and that the D4 "fought" their own stability system ... I presume now, their trailers are now tolerant of stability systems, because Toyota have had them for several years now).

    But they were quite anti Land Rover.

    I placed an order for a Sahara too on a dealer special on December 31st 2014 - but the dealer would not supply me a vehicle, due to their claim that they didn't have time to register the vehicle (it being 9 am in the morning). So I ended up buying my Disco with 4K on the clock from an annual LR sale ... and I bought an Australian Off Road trailer. Which by the way are typically much narrower than Cruisemaster so the standard LR mirrors will work terrifically. And you can get down narrow tracks as well with a narrower trailer. The owner of Australian Off Road loves Land Rovers too ... I should ask him his view of the new Defender...

    Incidentally, all Toyota owners on Australian Off Road mention the lack of support for LRs around Australia. It's really the major selling point of Toyotas. Afterall, they are a quite primitive design. So far, I've done 90 odd thousand K in my Disco, and had four failures in my vehicle:
    1 - the latch on one of the rear seats broke (under warranty and the dealer would not fix it for free - its still broken but I intend to remove the seats)
    2 - the driver's side vehicle front door rubber got holes in it (under warranty and the dealer would not fix it for free - its not leaking dust or making a noise so I've left it)
    3 - the "D" letter has lost a central bit of the vertical left side (under warranty and the dealer would not fix it for free - i did not blame them for that as their repair was to replace the whole kit at $1,450 or something silly)
    4 - A fuse went recently (my trailer had a short circuit in it's side lights due to a failed plug underneath the van)
    5 - I broke a rear window due to a bad road and not having a stone stomper fitted. I was 1,200km from Melbourne but tape held it together fortunately. RovaRange service got me a window for about $700.

    Thanks too, to Land Rover. I got caught in Brisbane before Christmas with a new Victorian lock down, where all people from the NSW Border would not be allowed back into Victoria - announced at 1pm on December 20th, the day of the wedding, we had to cross the Vic border by the next day, December 21st. Having taken my wife and AOR trailer to the wedding in Brisbane ( I thought airports are a Covid risk). so, darn it dictator Dan, I had to miss the reception of my close friend's daughter's wedding.

    We left the wedding at 6 pm and drove back to Melbourne, and made the border by 5:30 pm the next day. We had torrential rain much of the way. The first night part of the drive home, until 10 pm after the wedding on the Newell Highway, we had to swerve to avoid two semi trailer trucks running wide and we were at the speed limit. The rain was torrential. The road is just two lanes and semis were constant, as it was December 20th that evening drive, and the trucks were rushing to bring Christmas goods to Brisbane and it's Sunshine and Gold Coast cities.

    I reckon the Land Rover got us home, its steering response is on another planet compared to a 200 series, it's handling is on another planet too, and its level lighting no matter the load on tow ball with our trailer attached (trailer weights vary as water tanks etc. go up or down, toilets etc etc) is extremely safe, plus the thing handled some really nasty deep water and bad roads with joyous safety. OK there are negatives, but heck, it actually handles bloody well. What price safety?

    Finally, OK the D4 has a chassis but I don't think you can change its GVM, plus its rear axles would need upgrading too in order to increase the GVM, and I've not heard of being able too. Fact is if I'd bought a 200 I'd have had to spend $10k minimum extra on upgrading it, and more likely over $15,000. My extras have been bull bar, 3rd party tow bar (due to it being easier to shackle the safety chain on and off and also some academic clearance benefits), a bull bar, OK some fun stuff as well. But actually all it needed was bull bar, and I didn't do that for several years ... LR ain't perfect, sure, but Toyo ain't either, and I own three of them at the moment ... my best vehicle by far is the Disco, I still love it. Shame it's still not available actually because i do like a chassis for towing.

    Doug
    2014 HSE White;Tint; Windsor Lthr; 18" Compo & BFG KO2s 265/65/18; ARB-Summit B Bar, roof racks, air compressor Bushranger Night Hawk VLI 9" dimmable, Traxide Ritter Tow Bar, X Air jack Max Trax V1’s Redarc Tow Pro, GME Uhf 2 antennas, 9555 Iridium sat phone, AOR Matrix V3 off road van

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Brisbane,some of the time.
    Posts
    13,643
    Total Downloaded
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Melbourne Park View Post

    Shame it's still not available.

    Doug
    Yes,myself and many on here would have bought a new one, in a heartbeat.

    After owning a D4 for almost 10yrs,for us, there was nothing in the LR stable that suited us, including the new Defender,so we had to move on to another brand.

    You will never beat the handling or ride on a well set up vehicle with EAS,and independent suspension all corners, thats a given.
    But it also has its downfalls, thats why most manufacturers have stayed well away from it.
    Paul

    D2,D2,D2a,D4,'09 Defender 110(sons), all moved on.

    '56 S1,been in the family since...'56
    Comes out of hibernation every few months for a run

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    1,675
    Total Downloaded
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Melbourne Park View Post

    Fourthly, did they measure the weights on both axles with the engine running, or was the engine turned off?

    Doug
    Hi Doug, I’m a little lost on your 4th point....did I miss something I the video??

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Brighton, Vic
    Posts
    434
    Total Downloaded
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by W&KO View Post
    Hi Doug, I’m a little lost on your 4th point....did I miss something I the video??
    It's just that when I attach my trailer, there is a time lag between the attachment of the trailer, and the vehicle achieving a horizontal stature. Which can only be achieved by running the motor, as that indirectly powers the air pump. I think when observing axle weights, the motor should be running.
    2014 HSE White;Tint; Windsor Lthr; 18" Compo & BFG KO2s 265/65/18; ARB-Summit B Bar, roof racks, air compressor Bushranger Night Hawk VLI 9" dimmable, Traxide Ritter Tow Bar, X Air jack Max Trax V1’s Redarc Tow Pro, GME Uhf 2 antennas, 9555 Iridium sat phone, AOR Matrix V3 off road van

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Search AULRO.com ONLY!
Search All the Web!