New Defender envy?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by barney

I live on the Northern Beaches of Sydney and work on the Lower North Shore, so I see plenty of new Defenders driving around.

I got to drive one about 8 months ago and was very impressed.
I got an initiated wave from a guy in a black one the other day.
I saw one with a dead headlight the other day.
I've been overtaken by many of them.

They are a very cool vehicle and if I had any chance of making enough money to not only buy one, but maintain it as well, I would probably do it. But I can barely maintain the two I have.
But given the limited space in the back of the 110 and my intimate knowledge of the shortcomings of a vehicle so dependant on computers for everything, my 1984 110 V8 and my 2003 TD5 90 would be staying if I ever planned to do any extended trips into the unknown.

The original Defender was classless. It was the favourite car of farmers, company directors, tradesmen and royalty. Now, with the new one, as they are so much more expensive than the previous models were, it is creating a class-divide.

Gone is rugged "go anywhere, I don't care if my feet get wet, drive in the rain with the window down because I have to put my elbow out" that some will be glad to see the tail end of, but if they didn't like it, they could always buy a disco. The comradeship between Defender owners is fading as there are now 2 groups, or is it 2 classes? Your traditional Defender owner could be anyone - you just never knew by their vehicle. The New Defender owner is earning a fair bit of money (or has no mortgage or kids) will probably drive around in the bush with the windows up and climate control on in dead silence "enjoying" the great outdoors.
I have always argued that you are not really experiencing 4wding in the Australian bush unless you are getting smashed in the face by wayward branches every now and then or trying to shoo a wasp/bee/spider/bull ant out of your cabin while trying not to run into a tree.

A lot of people will disagree with me and say I'm just jealous. I'm not, I'm just a bit disappointed.

I still think it's a great vehicle, but my budget will never stretch that far and I'm ok with that.

---

So true Barney.
The many Defender owners I know within the 4WDing community have a commitment to the original Defender concept. Do we need all the latest computer gizmos I ask? No we survive in the bush without them, even though I am now a proud Discovery owner.

I equate it to the rebirth of the Mini, long lost many years ago. The original concept was simple, easy to maintain etc, affordable for the young generation and we loved them. What do we have now, yes a rebirth in which you could fit the elephants in![biggrin]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by grey_ghost

There is so much that could be said on this - essentially it all has been already.

But - the old Defender is dead. It wasn’t profitable, it didn’t meet strict regulations in the USA/EU, and at the end of the day - people simply weren’t buying it enough.

If the old Defender was so great - how come nobody bought it?

Yes the new Defender isn’t the same as the old one, but it was never going to be.

It’s like someone saying “I love my old B&W television. It had valves, rarely broke down, and was easy to tune.”

Yeah - I get that, but the government moved away from Analogue, forcing manufacturers to go Digital, with remote controls, streaming, apps, many more channels, lighter units, bigger units (can you imagine an 80” CRT screen?!)

Was land rover going to build a new Defender without the same (or more) tech than it’s rivals? Well clearly the answer is no.

Let’s all be honest with ourselves - we all like to think that we are outback adventures (me included), but how much time do we really spend driving a vehicle in the “hard” or “extreme” conditions versus on the bitumen getting there! (Hell it is bitumen all the way to Marree now!)

Not as much as we would all like.

So Land Rover built a vehicle that is great on road, and great off road.. And they can’t make enough of them.

LR were never going to build a new Defender that was the same as the old one, which wasn’t selling….

Look at the Grenadier - it was going to be everything that the new Defender wasn’t… It isn’t built in the UK (the economics didn’t add up), it has a BMW engine, it’s automatic, and it has plenty of electronics in it (touch screen anyone?). I am not saying that it’s not a great vehicle - what I am saying is that when they designed it, they realised that due to regulations/economics - they couldn’t build an old Defender and make money.

Live and let live I rekon!

Remembering - I drive an FFR, 101, Series 2, Disco 1, 4DR RRC, Freelander 1 and am restoring a 2DR RRC and Series 1.. So I love my old Landy’s.

But I think that the new Defender (although expensive) is what it should be…

Just my opinion though.

Cheers,
GG

---

I can easily explain this- price- without delving through my archives & old magazines, Series, Counties & Defenders were - & are still ( I think) more expensive than Toyotas & Nissans. Even Stage 1's were 11k when a Toyota was about 8.5k.
A mate of mine ended up running a fleet of Hire Toyotas in the early/mid 70's and being a L/R enthusiast went to JRA for an initial supply of 40 plus. Toyota & especially Nissan offered big $$ discounts and what did they offer off Land Rovers- Nothing- nilch, nada... so you have to wonder if that mentality carried through to the end of the Defender ( as we know it).
David

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeeJay

I can easily explain this- price- without delving through my archives & old magazines, Series, Counties & Defenders were - & are still ( I think) more expensive than Toyotas & Nissans. Even Stage 1's were 11k when a Toyota was about 8.5k.
A mate of mine ended up running a fleet of Hire Toyotas in the early/mid 70's and being a L/R enthusiast went to JRA for an initial supply of 40 plus. Toyota & especially Nissan offered big $$ discounts and what did they offer off Land Rovers- Nothing- nilch, nada... so you have to wonder if that mentality carried through to the end of the Defender ( as we know it).
David

---

...and if I calculate what my 2008 Defender would cost in today's dollars according to the RBA calculator it would cost $65,000...not cheap.

It's not just defenders that cost a bomb. I wonder how people can afford new at all.

Supposedly I'm on an ok wage but also have 3 kids. I have just bought a D1 again which topped out my budget. All up I will be in for $10-$11k on it when set up the way I want..

I will take it anywhere once done. It is comfortable enough, and the aircon works. Why spend so much $ on a car that basically does the same thing?

I also think the environmental friendliness of new cars is offset by the mining and resource extraction used to create them. Isn't it better to keep older vehicles going compared to buying new? Until we can fully recycle old for new, that's my plan.

Anyway, it's an interesting conundrum. No one waves at us disco owners either [emoji1787]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gusthedog

It's not just defenders that cost a bomb. I wonder how people can afford new at all.

Supposedly I'm on an ok wage but also have 3 kids. I have just bought a D1 again which topped out my budget. All up I will be in for $10-$11k on it when set up the way I want..

I will take it anywhere once done. It is comfortable enough, and the aircon works. Why spend so much $ on a car that basically does the same thing?

I also think the environmental friendliness of new cars is offset by the mining and resource extraction used to create them. Isn't it better to keep older vehicles going compared to buying new? Until we can fully recycle old for new, that's my plan.

Anyway, it's an interesting conundrum. No one waves at us disco owners either [emoji1787]

---

I agree with the conundrum. For someone to be able to buy a second-hand vehicle someone needed to have bought that vehicle new. So if you buy a new one keep it for as long as possible. Novated leases tend to influence the turnover....not my problem.

As a former D1 owner I wave! [biggrin]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by one_iota

...and if I calculate what my 2008 Defender would cost in today's dollars according to the RBA calculator it would cost $65,000...not cheap.

---

If it is a 110,and in excellent condition,it will sell for close to that second hand today,no worries at all.

The one in my sig was sold recently so i have an idea of the market,its rediculous.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gusthedog

It's not just defenders that cost a bomb. I wonder how people can afford new at all.

Supposedly I'm on an ok wage but also have 3 kids. I have just bought a D1 again which topped out my budget. All up I will be in for $10-$11k on it when set up the way I want..

I will take it anywhere once done. It is comfortable enough, and the aircon works. Why spend so much $ on a car that basically does the same thing?

I also think the environmental friendliness of new cars is offset by the mining and resource extraction used to create them. Isn't it better to keep older vehicles going compared to buying new? Until we can fully recycle old for new, that's my plan.

Anyway, it's an interesting conundrum. No one waves at us disco owners either [emoji1787]

---

I agree on the comment of price changes across pretty much everything.
But the spending vs doing the same thing is far for from the reality.
There is a reason people buying RR's (and whatever else) the last 50 plus years. Once you live with such a car in everyday life, you quickly realise the differences it actually makes. People comparing the new Defender to anything 10-20years older or lets say Japanese, missing the point by miles. Same goes for flying economy vs business. Yes, both going A to B but I know which one I prefer.
Do I enjoy driving classic Defenders? Of course, but for most everyday life chores I still grab the RRS keys cause it is much more practical and a fun drive too.
But as the topics says, there is envy. Will people who buying new cars care? I wouldn't. m

I can get a new Kia Carnival 2021 8 seater. The new model is light years ahead and $56k. Ok, it’s no LR, but 8 seater competition

It’ll take me nearly 3 times that to get into the Defer. Again cross purposes I know, but is it 3 times the worth?

I love my D4 to bits, and with the new price of the Defer, that will be my love for a long time yet. I cannot comprehend those prices, especially for v1 of the product.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DiscoJeffster

I can get a new Kia Carnival 2021 8 seater. The new model is light years ahead and $56k. Ok, it’s no LR, but 8 seater competition

It’ll take me nearly 3 times that to get into the Defer. Again cross purposes I know, but is it 3 times the worth?

I love my D4 to bits, and with the new price of the Defer, that will be my love for a long time yet. I cannot comprehend those prices, especially for v1 of the product.

---

Attachment 172814
Yes I saw you driving.....honestly. Comparing Kia's?

When my (late) father bought a new 109 Series 3 Hardtop in the mid 70's it was half the price of a Range Rover (approx. $3500 compared to $7000). Not the same ratio these days!