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Thread: (Another) Question for the Sparkys

  1. #11
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    Thanks.
    Just did some research and Westinghouse says it's Australian generators cannot be paralleled.
    Doesn't worry me as I didn't buy it to run the house. In a blackout I would just plug in the fridge, freezer and water pump for the toilet.
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Farang View Post

    .................... Inverter type generators are a relatively modern development, in fact I have never seen one! Standard "old" type synchronous generators can and are connected in parallel, ................... Cheers
    Reminds me of the beginning of a 'Star Wars' movie. .............. "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away" .................., well I also worked in a similar galaxy some 40+ odd years ago. No such thing as inverters then, new technology in the predominately DC area I worked in was relatively high current (200A+) semiconductor diodes. I still remember as a trainee 'basking in the glow' of massive glass mercury bath/vapour rectifiers (Tramways Power Station), it was quite a surreal experience that purple glow. Worked with some pretty good gear (for its day) including much pre war generating plant. I'm way out of touch now, the principles are the same but the technology is way different, as for current regs. no (well little) idea.

    With time on my hands I thought I'd look up the AS/NZS regs. that Homestar mentioned, well it turns out (to my looking) that it is not freely available on line (or otherwise) and that a fee of several hundred dollars is required to obtain this info. I found this rather strange, I can understand a cost for the provision of written material but for on line access ? A bit like having to pay to find out the road rules but still liable for prosecution if you fail to obey them. Perhaps I'm being unfair but I thought it a little strange.

    On a more positive note the sparkys been contacted and will be fitting a manual transfer switch and 'checking out' my generator after Christmas

    Here's a circuit of the generator from the supplied info.

    Generator cct small.jpg

    Here's a close up of the 'pointy end'





    I must be getting out of touch, this circuit has been driving me nuts as I can see no way that the 240V part is correct. The 125V sockets aren't there. There's 3 X 240V 15A sockets with button type circuit breakers and 1 single pole main circuit breaker.

    It gets even better (worser ?) I tested the output at the sockets with with a multimeter with the following results. Between the 'normally' active pin and 'normally' neutral pin I read 240V, between each of these pins and the earth pin 120V. The only vaguely normal thing (to my thinking) was that the single pole circuit breaker was in the 'normally' active connection, though I can see that taking the earth return back to the centre tap can give a 'framing' to gnd fault a return path, but not what I'm used to ?

    Using the analogy of the 240V output (brown and blue wires) as being from a centre tapped (white wire) transformer I can only conclude that the centre tap is connected to the sockets earth pins. There is no voltage measuring to the frame of the genset which may (or may not) be a good thing as it is insulated from the ground with plastic wheels and rubber feet.

    I haven't pulled the front panel off to check, though I'm sorely tempted, I'll leave it to the sparky.

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  3. #13
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    Homestar is offline Super Moderator & CA manager Gold Subscriber
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    Standards cost money yes. If youíre in the Trade you are expected to keep up to date with all the relevant standards pertaining to your work - same as keeping any licences up to date. Big companies like mine have a fairly expensive licence that allows us to print copies as needed for any standard at any time. The PDFís you download expire after a month so itís print them out or download it again.

    Smaller businesses may only buy the ones they need as needed to keep costs down.

    Standards Australia isnít a government organisation, but a not for profit non government peak governing body. Charging for the Standards is how they keep the doors open. 👍

    The only thing the Government do is mandate that the Australian Standards are used and make a law saying which copy is currently active for each of them so that we know which one to go by and for regulators to enforce them as required.


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  4. #14
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    As for the voltages you see, itís because the neutral has no earth reference as it currently sits. When itís connected to the building the neutral will be earthed by the MEN link and earth stake so you should see 240 volts between active and neural and active and earth and zero volts between neutral and earth once the machine is running the house through a properly connected switch and wiring.


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    'Love with your heart - use your head for everything else.' - CaptainDisillusion

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Farang View Post
    Just as a general point of interest, and in case somebody tries to tell you otherwise!

    Inverter type generators are a relatively modern development, in fact I have never seen one! Standard "old" type synchronous generators can and are connected in parallel, something that I used to do everyday for many years. There are basic rules and procedures that have to be followed to prevent what you have mentioned previously occurring.

    I bit of research into these new fangled machines show that 2 inverter type GENERATORS can be connected in parallel. There are "kits" available to do this, and although I am yet to find any circuit information, it appears that those units designed to be paralleled have provided connections to plug in interconnecting cables. This indicates that the control is probably done BEFORE the actual inverter with some from of sensing that allows both synchronisation, and load sharing between both generators output.

    Brilliant idea as far as I can see, providing you have enough money to buy two generators! Use one to provide a "base load" and plug in the other one when more output is required. If one of them should fail, then you still have some power available. Also, the idea of throttle control being part of an inverter type generator makes them much more efficient. Cheers
    Sawadee Krup

    I have 2 Honda EU22i that do just this...

    Works a treat when the power drops.
    Cheers
    Tombie

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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tombie View Post
    Sawadee Krup

    I have 2 Honda EU22i that do just this...

    Works a treat when the power drops.
    Merry Christmas, Mike. Your Father could probably do with a couple of them! Cheers.

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