Thread: Stick Welding Tips Required

Originally Posted by maca

One word

"TIG"

MMAW for thin chassis is just way tooooo tricky (for me anyway).

But oxy would be just as good, why do you prefer the stick?

Really? I wouldn't TIG unless you wanted to hide any evidence of repair. It's just a chassis, if I was going to the bother of getting gas for the TIG, then I would just go MIG. You can also set/use the MIG to give reinforcement on the inside of the chassis for a stronger weld.

Originally Posted by RobHay

RobHay's welding safety tip #1.

When welding on the vertical, DO NOT stand directly under the section you are welding.

Safety tip #2 . When welding on the vertical, or any other position for that matter, DO NOT wear thongs.


........NO! I do not want to discuss this further.

Tip number 1 - bought a cheap leather apron, auto helmet and baseball cap on backwards keeps the burnies out - ear plugs (or really big ear hairs) are needed too to keep the burnies out.

Tip number 2 - hmmm - were you at my place today - what is wrong with thongs - I agree with you but I am a bit lazy - yes I was welding in thongs today - I know how to hop well

Maybe more discussion is needed.

Garry

Originally Posted by garrycol

TIG = $$$ I don't have.

Most of the bits I am welding are about 3mm so stick works OK - I like Oxy as well but when the gas runs out that will be it - as mentioned cost is over the top so I am saving it for those urgent jobs - also heat is not as localised as stick and I have nearby wiring and underseal that will burn with oxy.

Garry

Most new inverter MMAW welders do DC TIG as well.
$200 for a cheepie (+ gas).

Originally Posted by garrycol

Thanks for the pointers - I have not problem welding when the metal is nice and new and sitting on a bench - the problems I have is when the project is in a position or is in a condition that is far from ideal and circumstances prevent proper cleaning or you have to weld upside down.

I actually have done a welding course using mig, oxy and stick but it was more aligned to fabrication where you have nice metal etc - not repair crap.

For example - if the job welding on the flat requires say 70 amps - what should the amps set at if welding over head or vertical - I did hear that amps should be 2/3rds - but my concern is then what will the penetration be like - poor I guess.

The point about quality of welding rods is spot on - I have some old CIG and these work great where my new no name ones bought from Bunnings are crap.

The welder is an old CIG transformer - I have a MIG but returned the gas bottle as it was just too expensive for the use it got. Also as said the stick welder is a bit forgiving on crappy projects where the MIG is absolutely useless. I found that on nice clean metal in ideal conditions, the MIG was no better than the stick anyway.

My main problem is getting the metal clean in tight out of the way spots and having to weld in overhead and vertical positions and in pokey spots.

Thanks to everyone for the pointers

Garry

Ok the reason you would pull the amps down when welding vertically is that you have to go a bit slower and you want a colder weld so it all doesnt just fall in a heap on the ground or your mask or in my case my chest OUCH that bloody hurt.

The only problem is then either going too slow and still ending up with a big blob of chassis and electrode laying on the ground bubbling or you go too fast and end up with little penatration.

You have to be pretty exact when welding vertically if you want a strong job.

If you have a MIG then I would be wandering down to your local Repco or Gasweld and picking up a disposable bottle (about $20) and small reg (about $30) or go down to BOC and see how much a bottle of Corgon will be on a weekend hire.

Last time I got an argon bottle on a weekend hire it was $35 from Friday to Monday. $30+ for the hire and $2 for the gas I used

Originally Posted by RobHay

RobHay's welding safety tip #1.

When welding on the vertical, DO NOT stand directly under the section you are welding.

Safety tip #2 . When welding on the vertical, or any other position for that matter, DO NOT wear thongs.


........NO! I do not want to discuss this further.

ROFLMAO........serves you right

My thoughts are that if there is a crack there then it must be a stress point, Therefore using GP rods would not be the best option. As for the metal being rusty well this does not help with Hydrogen bubbles which will weaken the weld, would look good on the outside but have no strength.
If you want a good job my suggestion would be use a mig as this will limit hydrogen bubbles being a problem therefor weld will be strong.
Second choice would be a low hydrogen rod or stainless rod both of these will be stronger than a GP rod, stainless will be easier to weld with but dearer to buy also would not be able to oxy stainless if needed.
You can also get a rod from pac weld that is used for all types of welding on uncertian metals or poor surface condition, problem extreemly expensive.
But these are easy to eld with and extreemly strong.
Sorry for the extended post but My motto is DO IT ONCE AND DO IT RIGHT.

Originally Posted by big harold

My thoughts are that if there is a crack there then it must be a stress point, Therefore using GP rods would not be the best option. As for the metal being rusty well this does not help with Hydrogen bubbles which will weaken the weld, would look good on the outside but have no strength.
If you want a good job my suggestion would be use a mig as this will limit hydrogen bubbles being a problem therefor weld will be strong.
Second choice would be a low hydrogen rod or stainless rod both of these will be stronger than a GP rod, stainless will be easier to weld with but dearer to buy also would not be able to oxy stainless if needed.
You can also get a rod from pac weld that is used for all types of welding on uncertian metals or poor surface condition, problem extreemly expensive.
But these are easy to eld with and extreemly strong.
Sorry for the extended post but My motto is DO IT ONCE AND DO IT RIGHT.

No cracks - just rust in the rear X member. The rear X member on a 101 has some closed in box sections that trap dirt that has come down the chassis - dust coming in the vent holes in the chassis - I collected about 3 kg of red dirt out the back end of the main chassis rails. These are all OK. The X member fits over the ends of the chassis (like a series repro rear x member) and it welded in place - the rear x member also carries the rear spring hangers not the chassis.

Because of the box sections and the rear bumpers which are held on by large plates rust builds up in the box sections and in between the x member and bumper plates.

When the rusty bits are cut out - it is difficult get into some tight spots to clean the remaining metal and when letting in the new metal a lot of the welding is overhead, vertical or on less that clean metal.

Hence my original questions. I will have a look for some alternative rods that may better suit the less than perfect conditions.

As far as making the welds look good - none of my welds look good - but the grinder does help.

Thanks

Garry

Garry, sorry to say it but if your welds dont look good then your not welding your just making a mess.

Thats what one of my bosses taught me and is true.

You cant just lay weld over something and expect it to stick.

The low Hyd or stainless rods would be a great idea and better suited to dirty crappy areas but again I would roll the MIG out and go get some gas as it will get rid of most of your problems.

Nothing welds rust so if you cant clean it up then you need to look at another way of doing it.

Have you considered a complete removal of the rear X member.

Sounds pretty major but if your spring hangers etc are all mounted to it then I would suggest looking at it as an option.

You could cut it back a bit with the oxy and then trim it when it is off then cut the old crap off the chassis and weld a properly restored one on.

It will probably take a lot longer and a fair bit more work but the end result will be strong and look good.

Originally Posted by mcrover

I would roll the MIG out and go get some gas as it will get rid of most of your problems.

I was taught at my tech course that of all the 'then' welding methods, MIG must have absolute cleanliness - that was also confirmed with my own experience. It is less tolerant than stick welding to a less than perfect environment.

My original post asked a number of questions and these have been well answered by you and others and I am thankful of that. As I indicated the basic chassis structure is totally undamaged but some of the bottoms of the box sections in the outer X member are rusted out - the box sections that support the spring hangers have no base to rust out so are sound - I am happy with the job - was just seeking advice on how others handle less than perfect welding conditions.

I have considered a new X member but before spending upwards of $1000 and having to dismantle the whole rear of the vehicle I thought I would see what the damage was first - is actually less than anticipated - in rebuilding this it will generally be stronger than the original as I seem welding everything where the original was little more than tacked allowing moisture and dirt to migrate through all the box sections.

Thanks to everyone for the comments.

Garry