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Thread: Isuzu C240 powered Series 3

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Narre Warren South
    Posts
    4,461
    Quote Originally Posted by ade30946x6 View Post
    Motor will be okay off road, but it will struggle on road with series gearing.
    The previous owner ran it with a high speed transfer box and it was OK on road but slow accelerating. I'll find out when I get it running again.


    Colin
    '56 Series 1 with homemade welder
    '65 Series IIa Dormobile
    '70 SIIa GS
    '76 SIII 88" (Isuzu C240)
    '81 SIII FFR
    '95 Defender Tanami
    '60 SII 109 ute (gone)
    Motorcycles :-
    Vincent Rapide, Panther M100, Norton BIG4, Electra & Navigator, Matchless G80C

  2. #12
    I am pulling my gearbox out tonight to join the long list of those whose high speed transfer box has damaged the main gearbox. Far inferior to running high speed diffs in my experience.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Narre Warren South
    Posts
    4,461
    I spent part of the weekend going through all the boxes of spare parts. Lots of new parts and also lots of s/h parts.
    I also took some measurements for the new flywheel. I intend to make it thicker in the centre (where it broke previously) but this may mean sourcing longer bolts to go into the crank. Bolts are M13x1.25 and you can see where the flywheel has come loose and fretted on the plain section under the head. I might try the Isuzu dealer later in the week and see if new ones are available and whether longer ones from another model might be also available.
    The car came with 3 clutch sets. One had a broken spring in the friction plate and the pressure plate was badly scored, one had clearly had the throwout bearing fail by the wear marks, one was badly rusted so.....time for a new clutch kit.
    Managed to source a S3 kit locally today for $170plus GST.

    I need a spigot bush for the flywheel, heli-coil (or similar) for the conversion plate because a few threads are damaged (3/8" UNC) plus a few bolts & bits and pieces.
    Once the flywheel is machined I'll fit it and try to start the engine (the conversion plate is resting on the crossmember but I want to ensure it actually works). Then I'll overhaul the gearbox before fitting. Once it's mobile again I can make my mind up where it fits in the scheme of things.

    The only other parts I have to locate are wing outer panels, a pair came in the spares but they are drilled for flares. Plus I need some repairable door bottoms, I either need to de-skin the originals and repair or get some bottoms that are repairable. The car came with new doortops, runners etc.

    More soon on the flywheel as it takes shape, I'll take photos of the various stages of production.


    Colin
    Last edited by gromit; 12th June 2012 at 01:15 PM. Reason: typo
    '56 Series 1 with homemade welder
    '65 Series IIa Dormobile
    '70 SIIa GS
    '76 SIII 88" (Isuzu C240)
    '81 SIII FFR
    '95 Defender Tanami
    '60 SII 109 ute (gone)
    Motorcycles :-
    Vincent Rapide, Panther M100, Norton BIG4, Electra & Navigator, Matchless G80C

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    13,790
    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    I spent part of the weekend going through all the boxes of spare parts. Lots of new parts and also lots of s/h parts.
    I also took some measurements for the new flywheel. I intend to make it thicker in the centre (where it broke previously) but this may mean sourcing longer bolts to go into the crank. Bolts are M13x1.25 and you can see where the flywheel has come loose and fretted on the plain section under the head. I might try the Isuzu dealer later in the week and see if new ones are available and whether longer ones from another model might be also available.
    The car came with 3 clutch sets. One had a broken spring in the friction plate and the pressure plate was badly scored, one had clearly had the throwout bearing fail by the wear marks, one was badly rusted so.....time for a new clutch kit.
    Managed to source a S3 kit locally today for $170plus GST.

    I need a spigot bush for the flywheel, heli-coil (or similar) for the conversion plate because a few threads are damaged (3/8" UNC) plus a few bolts & bits and pieces.
    Once the flywheel is machined I'll fit it and try to start the engine (the conversion plate is resting on the crossmember but I want to ensure it actually works). Then I'll overhaul the gearbox before fitting. Once it's mobile again I can make my mind up where it fits in the scheme of things.

    The only other parts I have to locate are wing outer panels, a pair came in the spares but they are drilled for flares. Plus I need some repairable door bottoms, I either need to de-skin the originals and repair or get some bottoms that are repairable. The car came with new doortops, runners etc.

    More soon on the flywheel as it takes shape, I'll take photos of the various stages of production.


    Colin
    Try and keep the flywheel as heavy as possible to smooth out torque pulses and make life easier on the gearbox. Will also help low-down torque offroad too.

    It sounds like the bolts were not tightened properly, rather than the flywheel was weak. I would use the angle-tightening method when you bolt it up.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Narre Warren South
    Posts
    4,461
    Quote Originally Posted by isuzurover View Post
    Try and keep the flywheel as heavy as possible to smooth out torque pulses and make life easier on the gearbox. Will also help low-down torque offroad too.

    It sounds like the bolts were not tightened properly, rather than the flywheel was weak. I would use the angle-tightening method when you bolt it up.
    Measuring the depth of the holes in the crankshaft, the thickness of the flywheel where it bolts to the crankshaft and the bolt length there is a distinct possibility the bolts were bottoming out and not holding the flywheel.

    The flywheel that came with the conversion was only 7mm thick where it bolts to the crank, the C223 flywheel that came with it is 10mm thick. We've worked out that we can go to about 15mm thick without the bolt heads interfering with the clutch plate but there will be less thread engagement in the crank (but still over 1.5 times the thread diameter).

    The cast iron blank is oversize so easy to increase the mass. But I guess it's a compromise, more mass means a bit slower to increase revs but gives more stored energy once it's up to speed. There is a relived area on the front of the original that we probably won't replicate but otherwise it's all tied down by the dimensions for the ring gear, pressure plate mounting etc.

    I'm trying to tie down the last few dimensions at the moment but because I don't want to remove the adapter plate from the motor it's proving difficult. I have to get an accurate measurement of the end of the crank so the register in the flywheel is a light interference fit and I also have to determine the PCD of the bolt holes in the crank.
    At the moment the PCD is measuring 60.7 - 60.8mm which is an odd dimension but could well be correct.


    Colin
    '56 Series 1 with homemade welder
    '65 Series IIa Dormobile
    '70 SIIa GS
    '76 SIII 88" (Isuzu C240)
    '81 SIII FFR
    '95 Defender Tanami
    '60 SII 109 ute (gone)
    Motorcycles :-
    Vincent Rapide, Panther M100, Norton BIG4, Electra & Navigator, Matchless G80C

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    130

    how to identify isuzu c240

    hi guys how do i identify isuzu C240. Ive got a isuzu engine in a series landy not sure what model or capacity

    cheers matt

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Narre Warren South
    Posts
    4,461
    Quote Originally Posted by mateusz View Post
    hi guys how do i identify isuzu C240. Ive got a isuzu engine in a series landy not sure what model or capacity

    cheers matt

    Does it look the same as the pictures earlier in this thread ? If not then it isn't a C240.

    I'm new to Isuzu motors, maybe you'd be better posting in the 'Isuzu Landy Enthusiasts section'. If you attach a picture I'm sure you'll get a quick answer.


    Colin
    '56 Series 1 with homemade welder
    '65 Series IIa Dormobile
    '70 SIIa GS
    '76 SIII 88" (Isuzu C240)
    '81 SIII FFR
    '95 Defender Tanami
    '60 SII 109 ute (gone)
    Motorcycles :-
    Vincent Rapide, Panther M100, Norton BIG4, Electra & Navigator, Matchless G80C

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    13,790
    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    Measuring the depth of the holes in the crankshaft, the thickness of the flywheel where it bolts to the crankshaft and the bolt length there is a distinct possibility the bolts were bottoming out and not holding the flywheel.

    The flywheel that came with the conversion was only 7mm thick where it bolts to the crank, the C223 flywheel that came with it is 10mm thick. We've worked out that we can go to about 15mm thick without the bolt heads interfering with the clutch plate but there will be less thread engagement in the crank (but still over 1.5 times the thread diameter).

    The cast iron blank is oversize so easy to increase the mass. But I guess it's a compromise, more mass means a bit slower to increase revs but gives more stored energy once it's up to speed. There is a relived area on the front of the original that we probably won't replicate but otherwise it's all tied down by the dimensions for the ring gear, pressure plate mounting etc.

    I'm trying to tie down the last few dimensions at the moment but because I don't want to remove the adapter plate from the motor it's proving difficult. I have to get an accurate measurement of the end of the crank so the register in the flywheel is a light interference fit and I also have to determine the PCD of the bolt holes in the crank.
    At the moment the PCD is measuring 60.7 - 60.8mm which is an odd dimension but could well be correct.


    Colin
    A 2.25D flywheel is about double the weight of a 2.25P (and much heavier than a 4BD1's !), but still accelerates as quickly as a 2.25P when tuned properly.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Narre Warren South
    Posts
    4,461
    Quote Originally Posted by isuzurover View Post
    A 2.25D flywheel is about double the weight of a 2.25P (and much heavier than a 4BD1's !), but still accelerates as quickly as a 2.25P when tuned properly.
    I can't comment on the above because I have no experience of the LR 2.25 diesel.
    Do you have any idea of the flywheel weights from the diesel & petrol, it would be interesting to weigh the old (broken) flywheel from the conversion and compare.

    My plan is to match the flywheel from the conversion kit and maybe make it heavier in one area to reduce the amount of machining needed. It worked fine in the vehicle for many years so it can't be too far out. I'm constrained by the dimensions so there's not much else I can do.

    Patterson Cheney Isuzu were very helpful today, they found a C240 parts manual and checked the crank bolts ....80 in stock in Australia. Should be able to pick up 6 bolts tomorrow morning at about $8 each.
    Collected a spigot bush today and brought in to work a rotary table for drilling the pressure plate bolt & dowel holes and the flywheel bolt holes.
    Hopefully tomorrow I can borrow a large micrometer and we are set to go into production.

    Very soon the flywheel/clutch assembly will be worth slightly more than I paid for the car !!!



    Colin
    '56 Series 1 with homemade welder
    '65 Series IIa Dormobile
    '70 SIIa GS
    '76 SIII 88" (Isuzu C240)
    '81 SIII FFR
    '95 Defender Tanami
    '60 SII 109 ute (gone)
    Motorcycles :-
    Vincent Rapide, Panther M100, Norton BIG4, Electra & Navigator, Matchless G80C

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    13,790
    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    Do you have any idea of the flywheel weights from the diesel & petrol, it would be interesting to weigh the old (broken) flywheel from the conversion and compare.
    4BD1 is 16-17 kg.
    2.25D ~30 kg (but I am about to remove it so can measure exactly)
    2.25P ~20 kg.

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