3 Slipped Liners 4.0 P38A

**PLR** · 12th December 2011, 06:24 PM

Hi Bruce ,

Swapped to my laptop and the pics are much sharper .

From the pics and what your related , i can`t see anything that is saying the block is cracked .

Although there is no set way of things ..... the norm would be to find the piston tops and combustion chambers clean alloy looking .

When coolant enters it seems to leave a redish tinge on mostly the exhaust valves but also discolours the inlet .

Once in the air a few days they will begin to show rust on valves and gasket metal .

The norm would also be that it has been loosing coolant at an increasing rate over an extended time and at the end it would be letting excessive liquid out the exhaust on first start up after having cooled to cold .

At this stage is when the excessive pressurising of the coolant system occurs .

The head gasket itself shows signs of failure but there would normally be tells on the block deck and or the cylinder head face .

There is a possibilty that the reason they are not found is because you found it before it was able to mark either surface .

All this sounds i hope reasonable but my problem is that as i said i`m looking at pictures that don`t always tell the truth .

I`d suggest you rotate the engine by hand till the faulty piston with the bits off is as low in the cylinder as you can get it have a good look and feel of the bore ............. if you can see or feel any scallops marks voids ECT cause by broken rings or the like then the engine will need to come out and the repair will be major .

If you find the bore to be good then i`d suggest you take the gaskets to someone that knows what they`re doing and ask their thoughs on the gaskets , without saying anything about cracked blocks .

If the gaskets are as they seem from the pics the answer should be they are no good .

The single piston can be replaced .

The other thing against a cracked block is the kilometers it done the norm seems to be between 70 and 120 though there are always exceptions .

Sorry i can`t be of more specific help and using so many words .

Cheers

**PhilipA** · 12th December 2011, 08:35 PM

Huh?
Didn't you see the 3 liners out of position in the first post?

I`d suggest you rotate the engine by hand till the faulty piston with the bits off is as low in the cylinder as you can get it have a good look and feel of the bore ............. if you can see or feel any scallops marks voids ECT cause by broken rings or the like then the engine will need to come out and the repair will be major .

I think it is a given that the engine will have to come out
.

Regards Philip A

**PLR** · 12th December 2011, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by PhilipA

Huh?
Didn't you see the 3 liners out of position in the first post?

I think it is a given that the engine will have to come out
.

Regards Philip A

Hello Philip ,

yes , i`m pretty much aware of the condition of the engine .

The reason for all the questions and answers and pictures was to get an idea of it`s condition , which i thought would be fairly clear.

The liners don`t appear to be moving nor does liquid seem to be a problem the only complaint pertaining to liquid was bubbles .

If the liner with the broken piston isn`t ok then the engine needs to come out otherwise it can be used pretty much as is with a replacement piston if the owner pleases and then he can re-engine at his lesure .

Your comment about a neglected engine is missplaced and presumptuous the reason for all the carbon is caused by the broken piston and not neglect .

Peter

**Keithy P38** · 13th December 2011, 07:13 AM

Don't know about you, if I had 3 slipped liners I'd be pulling the engine out for rebuild/replacement, no way I'd chuck a new piston in with a slipped liner!

**Pedro_The_Swift** · 13th December 2011, 07:19 AM

I think the problem Keithy is we're not sure if there IS a problem,,
yes the liners have moved,, but maybe only once, not all the time. Bruce may get away with just a new piston and gaskets,, no-ones saying the thing will then last forever,, but it gives him time to weigh up some options. I think the noise would be something special if all 3 liners were moving all the time--

**Keithy P38** · 13th December 2011, 07:29 AM

The ol' if it ain't broke theory hey ;-)

**Pedro_The_Swift** · 13th December 2011, 07:36 AM

its easy when its someone elses problem---

**RR P38** · 13th December 2011, 07:50 AM

Looking at the RPI web site i see that they say top hat liners are not a permanent fix for the liner issue and that coolant leakage can still be a problem down the track.
Has any one had a failure of a Top hat?

If you are going to make a piston change on this engine i would be tempted to try some for of adhesive to bind the liner to the block or try and pin the sucker at the bottom of the bore.

There does seem to be some scoring near the deck where the liner has been traveling up and down with the piston a few times as this happens more and more obviously it makes a larger path for fluid or gas to pass.

I would like to see a survey on our web site on this issue with a few questions;
Have you had a liner failure?
What fuel do you use? 91 Octane, Gas, Premium, Ethanol ULP?

I feel that there is a link here with low quality fuels and poor burn within the cylinder.

If we get 200,000kms out of an engine in such heavy vehicles and need a new one is that so bad?

**Pedro_The_Swift** · 13th December 2011, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by RR P38

I would like to see a survey on our web site on this issue with a few questions;
Have you had a liner failure?
What fuel do you use? 91 Octane, Gas, Premium, Ethanol ULP?

A new POLL?
off you go then

**PhilipA** · 13th December 2011, 08:30 AM

Your comment about a neglected engine is missplaced and presumptuous the reason for all the carbon is caused by the broken piston and not neglect .

Its's not only me who says it.
RPi Engineering - V8 Engines

We all need to start somewhere, and this is for sure the best and most reliable place to start!

Take a good look inside even if only through the oil filler hole.

Oh, and you will need a torch, a Penlight is best.

A good look inside the rocker covers through the oil hole will help you to determine the internal condition (and the minimum parts you will need for a successful job).
if your are unsure, it will fall into one of the following categories.

Silver Alloy surfaces? Sounds like a new engine

Brown tarnished? Very low mileage, dark brown? Perhaps higher mileage, but well cared for.

Black? Getting poor, a full rebuild/replacement should be considered.

Black Coated & becoming dense? Very poor condition, A rebuild is normally required

Black and very sludgy? Dead on its feet.

You can be sure this method is a reliable way to determine what you have, and to help you decide what you should do.

Are one of the recognised experts "presumptuous" as well?
I can assure you that the V in my engine is honey brown at 208KK.

Regards Philip A

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