P38 Coil Suspension Conversion

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DT-P38

Perhaps we can also focus on taking the bull**** out of EAS being such a big drama. It's a robust system when kept in good order. "80% of issues" is one "grease monkeys" questionable personal opinion based on his experiences.

You should have asked that fella what the true "root causes" of him developing that opinion were... Like lack of servicing and maintenance and general wear and tear. And quite possibly his dumb fear of the unknown through having never reco'd one completely himself.

---

Hi DT-P38. The "root causes" of developing that opinion is that he is a Land Rover specialist and repairs them when owners bring their P38s in for repairs ;) But you are correct in your opinion that lack of maintenance (along with some design issues as PaulP38 pointed out earlier) is the main cause of the issues with the EAS.

Each to their own, If a Coil conversion for you is cheaper than a set of air springs and a valve block o ring kit then why not.
I have had air sprung Range Rovers since 1993 and would never consider a coil conversion. The system is resilient and from my experience trouble free for 8 years or so. Then like most things a bit of TLC or replacement is needed. I have yet to hear of a Land Rover Specialist garage with the knowledge or inclination to repair any parts of the EAS so the poor punter has to replace very expensive parts that are most probably serviceable. No doubt the cost of labour is a big factor as well.
As already said, if I were also in the market for another P38 as soon as I saw Coil Conversion in an add I would discount that car immediately.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redandy3575

We're just having a friendly debate that's all, i don't think there's any hard feelings amongst us.

I as an enthusiast with not just P38, but cars in general see the real value with vehicles kept to originality with the best possible care over time. Let's look at say a Phase 3 XY Ford Falcon GT ' Shaker', there are so many aftermarket conversions out there to make just about any XY falcon look and run like the real thing but.............they're not real & genuine. Despite how the aftermarket conversion looks and sounds, they're not worth 2 bob when going to sell it, why, because a cashed up enthusiast will know and only a fool will fall for the fake. Now having said that, i don't mind some mild aftermarket changes to lightly spice up the looks a little without doing any strucktual changes i can settle for that as can many enthusiasts, but drastic changes will reduce the vehicles appeal.

.

---

Your comparing a gtho to a p38, now that's dillusional! It should be compared with every xy, as it's no rare, race prepped version built for a differing purpose, a p38 is merely just a range rover

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rovercare

Your comparing a gtho to a p38, now that's dillusional! It should be compared with every xy, as it's no rare, race prepped version built for a differing purpose, a p38 is merely just a range rover

---

Did you read the rest of thread? At what point did I compare a P38 with a GTHO?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DT-P38

I reckon you have lobotomised and castrated your version of the car LR originally built. But hey, if it makes it easy for you to live with enjoy! Myself and many other purist enthusiasts will happily do the easy yards to keep ours true to the original "Best of Breed" design standards. Instead of just going the simple backwards option of dumbing them down.

---

Has yours really been kept true to the original “Best of Breed” standard? No modifications;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redandy3575

Also regarding lift kits, i see them as more trouble than their worth as it involves more than just simply lifting a vehicle and again will require changes both strucktualy and mechanically. Personally i'm not a huge fan of lifts, which again with air suspension you do not need as you can adjust your ride height to suit the road condition, instead of sitting up high all the time swaying like the leaning tower of Pisa. Your insurance company may be oblivious to this, but i can guarantee you one thing that when it comes to paying out and their bottom line is at stake here, they''ll find something to ping you on, and if you don't know your legality limits and have the right paperwork (e'g engineer certificate) your on your own.
A lot of 4WD's with these oversized tyres and 4 inch lifts you'll find that they'll either have specialist insurance (i.e Shannons) or worse, no insurance at all, and are really taking a gamble.

---

Are you against all lift kits, air suspension lift kits included, or just coil spring suspension lift kits? Bigger tyres, such as 33 inch, are also a way to lift vehicles - against them as well ;)


In light of the comments about coil spring conversions on the P38 by the die hard adherents of the P38 air spring system I will highlight a few things about the most advanced version of the P38 air spring setup that is available to the general public in the form of Arnott Industries Gen III air springs and Hard Range air spring lift kits in order to put the discussion taking place into logical perspective.

The original P38 air spring spring rate under normal load is about 190 lb/in. The Gen III air springs from Arnott Industries are a lot firmer at highway setting than the original ones and thus effectively take the spring rate of the Gen III air springs over 200 lb/in which is close to that of a soft coil spring coversion setup. This has been hailed as a substantial improvement on the overly soft spring rate of the original air springs, thus making the vehicle better handling in highway mode and a safer vehicle at highway speeds.

The Gen III front air springs give an extra 2 inches of travel and the rear Gen III air springs give an extra 3.5 inches of travel. To maximise the off road abilities of the P38 it makes perfect sense to purchase a 2 inch air suspension lift kit from Hard Range Australia and extended shock absorbers in order to access the full possibilities of what the air spring suspension invites. With with the HR 2 inch lift and the Gen III air springs that makes up 4 inch suspension lift on the front axle and 5.5 inch lift on the rear axle. To further maximise the vehicles potential one can fit 33 inch tyres which will give an extra 2 inch lift on the vehicle. If one has maximised the off road capability of an air sprung P38 in this way one will have 6 inches total lift from standard on the front axle and 7.5 inches on the rear axle.

Another one of the improvements of the Arnott Gen III air springs is to provide a softer spring rate at high lift, opposed to the unpopular firm spring rate of the standard air springs at high lift. While there is a more comfortable ride gained by this in rough terrain the drawback of the lower spring rate of the Arnott Gen III air springs at high lift is that the vehicle will sway more as the centre of gravity of the lifted vehicle is that much higher than that of a standard P38. If one decides to install quick disconnect anti-sway bar linkages and then choose to drive without them fitted then the vehicle will become very unstable in certain terrain because of the absence of the anti-sway bar. It is not called an anti sway bar without reason.

I've written these observations tounge in cheek to show that when one lives in a glass house one should be weary of throwing stones ;) It's not all black and white when it comes to choosing between coil spring suspensions and air spring suspensions. The hypothetical air spring vehicle above would be a lot more off road capable than my modest P38 with a maximum suspension lift of under 4 inches but would still be subject to the reliability issues discussed earlier, but as also discussed those reliability issues can be moderated by keeping up your maintenance. What ever way you go just enjoy what you have ;)

Yes but with enhancement to EAS, not complete removal and replacement with "classic" standard stuff.

Completely different kettle of fish that. But you keep telling yourself (and the rest of us) whatever you need to. Tongue in cheek or whatever.

You have my opinion on your set up pretty clearly already... The subject does nothing for me.

Over and out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by p38oncoils

Has yours really been kept true to the original “Best of Breed” standard? No modifications;)



Are you against all lift kits, air suspension lift kits included, or just coil spring suspension lift kits? Bigger tyres, such as 33 inch, are also a way to lift vehicles - against them as well ;)


In light of the comments about coil spring conversions on the P38 by the die hard adherents of the P38 air spring system I will highlight a few things about the most advanced version of the P38 air spring setup that is available to the general public in the form of Arnott Industries Gen III air springs and Hard Range air spring lift kits in order to put the discussion taking place into logical perspective.

The original P38 air spring spring rate under normal load is about 190 lb/in. The Gen III air springs from Arnott Industries are a lot firmer at highway setting than the original ones and thus effectively take the spring rate of the Gen III air springs over 200 lb/in which is close to that of a soft coil spring coversion setup. This has been hailed as a substantial improvement on the overly soft spring rate of the original air springs, thus making the vehicle better handling in highway mode and a safer vehicle at highway speeds.

The Gen III front air springs give an extra 2 inches of travel and the rear Gen III air springs give an extra 3.5 inches of travel. To maximise the off road abilities of the P38 it makes perfect sense to purchase a 2 inch air suspension lift kit from Hard Range Australia and extended shock absorbers in order to access the full possibilities of what the air spring suspension invites. With with the HR 2 inch lift and the Gen III air springs that makes up 4 inch suspension lift on the front axle and 5.5 inch lift on the rear axle. To further maximise the vehicles potential one can fit 33 inch tyres which will give an extra 2 inch lift on the vehicle. If one has maximised the off road capability of an air sprung P38 in this way one will have 6 inches total lift from standard on the front axle and 7.5 inches on the rear axle.

Another one of the improvements of the Arnott Gen III air springs is to provide a softer spring rate at high lift, opposed to the unpopular firm spring rate of the standard air springs at high lift. While there is a more comfortable ride gained by this in rough terrain the drawback of the lower spring rate of the Arnott Gen III air springs at high lift is that the vehicle will sway more as the centre of gravity of the lifted vehicle is that much higher than that of a standard P38. If one decides to install quick disconnect anti-sway bar linkages and then choose to drive without them fitted then the vehicle will become very unstable in certain terrain because of the absence of the anti-sway bar. It is not called an anti sway bar without reason.

I've written these observations tounge in cheek to show that when one lives in a glass house one should be weary of throwing stones ;) It's not all black and white when it comes to choosing between coil spring suspensions and air spring suspensions. The hypothetical air spring vehicle above would be a lot more off road capable than my modest P38 with a maximum suspension lift of under 4 inches but would still be subject to the reliability issues discussed earlier, but as also discussed those reliability issues can be moderated by keeping up your maintenance. What ever way you go just enjoy what you have ;)

---

To answer your first question......YES!!!

And what are you talking about, you sound like a porn star with all this inch talk.:wacko:

Firstly and again point out where i said that i'm against lift kits? I said that i'm not a fan of it, cause frankly, i do not see a need for it in Range Rovers due to the fact that you can adjust the suspension when and where needed that's all. Maybe in other 4WD's i.e Toyota Landcruisers or Nissan Patrols i can see the need for one cause they do not have the luxury of adjustable suspension straight out of the box, let alone a lot of the underbody components that hang below the chassis line that ends up being scrapped when heavy duty off-roading. With Range Rovers (and not just P38's) the clever designs have ensured everything underbody is well tucked above the chassis line. When off-roading, i found the only real thing that scrappes is the diff, therefor a diff guard will do nicely.

Secondly, who says that the standard high suspension setup is unpopular? i've never heard of that from a single Range Rover enthusiast that i've spoken to, it may be unpopular to you but certainly not to the majority. Sure Arnott III springs are an improvement, but wouldn't go as far as saying that they're essential when going off-road, and the standard suspension handles the terrain just fine. Also understand this, Range Rovers are 4WD's after all not sports cars and they naturally sway more than cars therefor you need to allow for that. There's nothing wrong with softer springs either, as believe it or not, that alone increases the vehicles off road capability due to the better suspension flex and constant ground contact of the wheels, and your driving is what will determine the stability of your Rangie.

So P38oncoils, please don't get upset from all this, cause i get the impression that your simply looking for a debate, and that's fine, that's what forums are for, and we're just at odds with opinions that's all. But like i & others have said before........it's your choice!! Do as you please!!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redandy3575

So P38oncoils, please don't get upset from all this, cause i get the impression that your simply looking for a debate, and that's fine, that's what forums are for, and we're just at odds with opinions that's all. But like i & others have said before........it's your choice!! Do as you please!!!!

---

Thank you redandy3575, wayneg, serbastion, Keithy P38, RR P38, Gippslander, rovercare, Scouse, PaulP38 and DT-P38 for taking the time to have a chat. I enjoyed the discussion. Attached is a side shot of my vehicle with the illegal lift :o just to put things into perspective ;) I hope to catch up with you guys at some stage on a muddy track somewhere - take care :)

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/p3...der-ranges.jpg

LOVE THAT COLOUR :BigThumb::BigThumb:

Gary

Here is a couple of mine doing what four wheel drives are built for.:D on the Barclay river Jeep track what a hoot.