Out-of-round OEM 18in alloys?

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Originally Posted by Tombie

Could have spat weights... happens.
Or your shocks may be worn and the wheels are going out of balance.

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It's possible some weights came off, but all four wheels I got them to balance today were 'way out'. Maybe I would have heard the weights going south?

I've been thinking about shocks. I noticed when replacing a rear EAS height sensor a few weeks ago that the shock lower tube (I think) had paint worn off it to the metal -- and that I should investigate.

I was also chatting to a bloke about suspension tech, such as Citroen hydro-pneumatic, LR's EAS etc and it got me thinking about my RR's ride quality. I just assumed it felt a bit harsh because it's been a while since I have had a live-axles vehicle. Beginning to think it might need new shocks, because when I think about it, the air suspension I remember from years ago was pretty lush (in a live-axles kind of way). Yet another thing to add to a growing list of jobs on this car.

Meanwhile scraped its perfect LH mirror housing when squeezing the RR back in the garage. Hate that.

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Originally Posted by 4X4V8

It's possible some weights came off, but all four wheels I got them to balance today were 'way out'. Maybe I would have heard the weights going south?

I've been thinking about shocks. I noticed when replacing a rear EAS height sensor a few weeks ago that the shock lower tube (I think) had paint worn off it to the metal -- and that I should investigate.

I was also chatting to a bloke about suspension tech, such as Citroen hydro-pneumatic, LR's EAS etc and it got me thinking about my RR's ride quality. I just assumed it felt a bit harsh because it's been a while since I have had a live-axles vehicle. Beginning to think it might need new shocks, because when I think about it, the air suspension I remember from years ago was pretty lush (in a live-axles kind of way). Yet another thing to add to a growing list of jobs on this car.

Meanwhile scraped its perfect LH mirror housing when squeezing the RR back in the garage. Hate that.

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Took the P38 for a long highway drive and most of the vibrations have gone. It was wheel balance, not out of round wheels. I think.
There are still some vibrations that seem to phase in and out at around 110-115km/h. It feels obvious beause at around 100km/h or so the car drives completely smoothly.
It is frustrating because there is nothing obviously wrong now. I will try another set of wheels to discount that being the problem.
My gut feeling is that it is a driveline problem, such as UJs. The fact that there is a vibration on the overrun at 60km/h also points towards something other than wheels.

You could try a different set of rims to rule that out as a first step.
I'd be suprised if it was the rims, unless they have been in an accident or something like that.
I'll assume you have recently greased the driveline.
I once had a drive shaft slightly out of balance that caused exactly what you are describing.
I took it to a drive shaft specialist and they balanced the shaft which improved things out of sight.

Another possibility might be the viscous coupling.
Mine had a vibration happening especially at highway speeds, that i just could not seem to find.
I had the wheels balanced, new UJ's, wheel alignment, new shocks, which all improved the situation, but the vibration was still present.
I could see the passenger seat vibrating on the highway, which annoyed me no end.
I ended up getting a new viscous coupling from Ashcroft transmissions in the UK, changed that over and the vibration was gone.
Would be worth investigating if you haven't already.
I know these things casn be annoying, but there will be a way to get it sorted.
Hope that is of some help.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 4X4V8

Took the P38 for a long highway drive and most of the vibrations have gone. It was wheel balance, not out of round wheels. I think.
There are still some vibrations that seem to phase in and out at around 110-115km/h. It feels obvious beause at around 100km/h or so the car drives completely smoothly.
It is frustrating because there is nothing obviously wrong now. I will try another set of wheels to discount that being the problem.
My gut feeling is that it is a driveline problem, such as UJs. The fact that there is a vibration on the overrun at 60km/h also points towards something other than wheels.

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Depending on how long you ran out of balance - the tyres may have some fun tread harmonics.

Did you get a wheel alignment?
Could one tyre be unevenly worn? Rotating them might make a difference.

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Originally Posted by PeterH

You could try a different set of rims to rule that out as a first step.
I'd be suprised if it was the rims, unless they have been in an accident or something like that.
I'll assume you have recently greased the driveline.
I once had a drive shaft slightly out of balance that caused exactly what you are describing.
I took it to a drive shaft specialist and they balanced the shaft which improved things out of sight.

Another possibility might be the viscous coupling.
Mine had a vibration happening especially at highway speeds, that i just could not seem to find.
I had the wheels balanced, new UJ's, wheel alignment, new shocks, which all improved the situation, but the vibration was still present.
I could see the passenger seat vibrating on the highway, which annoyed me no end.
I ended up getting a new viscous coupling from Ashcroft transmissions in the UK, changed that over and the vibration was gone.
Would be worth investigating if you haven't already.
I know these things casn be annoying, but there will be a way to get it sorted.
Hope that is of some help.

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Thanks mate, that gives me a few ideas. Yes the driveline has all been greased recently.

I had hoped that taking it to a LR specialist would short-circuit any 'parts replacement therapy', as they would have experience of P38 problems like this and quickly get to an accurate diagnosis. I haven't had much luck with two of them. That's actually not a criticism of them; they seem to be so flat-chat at the moment that fiddling around with my car must seem like it's all too hard. And potentially expensive (for me) if they were to spend hours on it trying to diagnose the problem. It seems to be a common theme at the moment; mechanics generally appear to be busier than they have ever been.

So I plan to take the slow-burn approach, as that's all I can do with the time and money I have to spend anyway. It isn't a big problem now, but I do want to sort it out before taking the RR on any big trips, in case it develops into something more serious.

When it's a bit of a mystery, mechanics sometimes end up replacing parts just to rule those parts out.
The way I looked at mine was I didn't know the history of things like the UJ's, so replacing them was not a very big expense, I could rule those out as culprits and I know they would be good for years to come.
If you are ok on the tools, the parts themselves are usually not that expensive.
I had one of my front tyres developing a 'scalloped' wear pattern, even though the shocks seemed fine from what I could tell, sure enough, replacing the shocks solved that problem.

At least you are starting from a base point of knowing the parts you replace are ok.
Even the steering damper could cause weird vibrations if it is on the way out.

I always start with the easy stuff and go from there.
Just to clarify, have you had a wheel alignment done?
This would be a good frst place to start, they will inspect the bushes when they do that, so they might uncover anything that needs attention.

If that doesn't solve the problem, next I would be looking at shocks and steering damper to rule those out.
Next I would replace the UJ's.
That's just me though!

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Originally Posted by PeterH

Just to clarify, have you had a wheel alignment done?
This would be a good frst place to start, they will inspect the bushes when they do that, so they might uncover anything that needs attention.

If that doesn't solve the problem, next I would be looking at shocks and steering damper to rule those out.
Next I would replace the UJ's.
That's just me though!

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I agree, it doesn't hurt to spend money if it means one less thing to worry about in the future. I don't mind spending the $ so long as I'm not throwing it away.

I just don't want to have a 'noisy' t'fer case rebuilt at great expense when it's ends up as a diff at fault, for example. Speaking hypothetically of course, I'd never be as stupid as to fall for that one. Not more than once, anyway.[bigwhistle]

Speaking of diffs (no, I haven't had anything re-built on this particular vehicle) there is what sounds like diff whine from 60km/h. One LR specialist thought it was actually a noisy t'fer case, although he said it wasn't too serious. So there might be something there to consider, that could be causing vibration. I don't know. I'm not game to jump down that rabbit hole yet.

I had a wheel alignment done in Feb at the same place I bought the tyres - ie the same mob who stuffed up the wheel balancing.

So that's not a bad idea to get another wheel alignment done - obviously not at the same place as last time.

The original steering damper began to leak in April, so I replaced that with a new one. I can't remember which brand now, don't think it was OEM but I researched it and got the best aftermarket quality 'standard' OEM type I could.

UJs are relatively cheap and seemingly easy to replace. But I have an irrational fear of UJs - the only time I ever have replaced them was on an XJ Cherokee. I remember that they kept falling apart as I tried to fit them to the vehicle. Caps, roller bearings and grease going everywhere. Maybe I just need more patience this time :).

Shocks appear original and seem to be doing their job. Even more so once I let out the excessive air out of the tyres after the latest wheel balancing. I still don't get why tyre fitters think 40psi is always a much better number than if the tyre placard says something else....Anyway, I was thinking of replacing the air springs next year as part of a suspension refresh and might replace the shocks as well.

Anyway, the RR still goes well; it's a good, original Vogue with good bones and most things work. I even made progress the other day, with a brake bleed I've been meaning to do for 6 months. Brake feel is much better now.

Good idea to also have the steering and other bushes checked.
Rotating tyres front to opposite back is also a simple thing to try.
What have you got to lose?