Thread: EAS "Leak-Down" Problem... Ideas?

Hi there Steve and welcome to the forum! you have put in a lot of effort! I am presuming that you had a look at the P38 threads on www.rangerovers.net/forums and the "sticky" on EAS?

when you rebuilt the valve block, did you ensure that NO vasoline contaminated the o-rings on the three non-return valves ?

Have you tried removing the EAS timer relay from the EAS ECU under the LH front seat? (for you that's the Driver's seat) to see whether the vehicle still lowered over night? ...

you mentioned hearing a loud hissing recently ...I presume also you have used a lot of soapy water to try and detect sourve of the the leaks?
See also Storey wisldons excellent site with videos...
P38a EAS Diag Videos
that's a start!

PS: the so-called " genuine calibration block" s are useless for DIY calibration...they are for setting a baseline in the LR Test book.
According to LR's own EAS Systems Information Document, standard height is defined as a gap of 100mm+/- 4mm between the axle plate and the bump stop stub for the fronts and 105 mm +/- 4mm for the rears. If you make up a set of blocks to these dimensions and insert them (having removed the squishy bump stop covers first, you'll get an interesting set of figures for each corner, whether it be wheel arch to ground or wheel arch to middle of wheel.
whatever you select use that as your base and then apply the appropriate displacements from there for Access, Hwy, Std, Max etc.

Hi Steve - impressive stuff... seems like you have replaced or rebuilt most parts of the EAS.

Have you tried swapping the height sensors from side to side and then recalibrating? The potentiometers might be a bit worn from their usual range of travel. Swapping the Right Rear and Left Rear should effectively invert the range of travel and just might go a way to addressing the problem. Easy to do and worth a go.

Cheers, Paul.

Hi Hoges and Paul,

Thank you for your reply... you have answered a couple of questions that have been floating around in my head... one being... How the heck do those calibration blocks work? The protrusion that retains the bump-stop befuddles everything, not to mention the whole stepped design.

My version of calibration blocks were very simple. I purchased a 10 foot length of 2" OD PVC pipe from a large hardware store and using the sum of all of those heights listed in the drawing from ivery819 (thank you) for the tallest block and then subtracting from their I cut 4 sets of each height and set about "calibrating" the suspension. The thing about the pipe was that it by-passed the whole bump-stop lug problem by going around it. I was surprised by a couple of things... The difference between a frame-to-axle calibration and a ground to fender measurement. After the frame to axle calibration I measured the ground to fender distances and in some cases found 1/4 inch or so differences between the ground to each fender (to my knowledge my vehicle has never been in an accident) while still having a good repeatable frame to axle distance (before I started this whole calibration thing I had looked closely at the sensors and sensor arms for damage or wear and to have a good feeling that the same height results in the same sensor value). I was a little concerned about the PVC being able to support the vehicle but it worked well, keeping in mind that EVERYTHING was done with jacks and jack-stands during the up/down part of the calibration and while my hand was between the frame and axle when installing/removing the PPMD’s (PVC Pipe Measuring Devices).
Thank you for the 100mm/105mm Land Rover spec height, it isn’t easy to find that stuff.

The next surprise was just how much of an improvement there was in handling, it was good, but now I see that the rear should be just a little higher than the front, which should give a little more caster and maybe another improvement in lateral tracking again.

I had also had a shimmy at about 55-58 MPH (defenatly not tire balance) which is now gone. I do sometimes believe in coincidences but not in this case.

Vaseline on an o-ring on a none-return-valve? Sounds like something I should check, though I didn’t use any kind of lubricant on the o-rings in the valve-block at all but I suppose there could be some contaminant? How do I identify the none-return-valves? Is there one for each spring? And are they mounted on the top or bottom of the valve-block as viewed when installed?

I have just removed the timer-relay for the night and will take a look at the vehicle in a few hours and in the morning.

The hiss in the right-front was the metal collar ring at the top of the air-spring. The collar had slid-down about 15mm or so, so at full height the top of the bag decided to start leaking... I replaced both front air-springs since the ring looked rusty and most likely not very cooperative in the longevity and reliability department.

Hi Paul (paulp38a), Thank you too for your message. Strangely, yes, I did swap the two front sensors from left to right. When I first read about doing that and looked at the part in, I think Rave, I saw a long pig-tail that was sneaked and tucked-up under the edge of the fender liner. Not being an enthusiast of fender-liner-removal I approached the subject without a whole heck of a lot of enthusiasm but the knowledge that it was a very good idea. As I mentioned above, when I took a good look at the sensor and linkages I was very happy to see a nice little plug on the side of the sensor that easily disconnected it from the harness. After removing both of the sensors and using a marker to mark L and R as each came off I was curious to know if the part numbers were different, they were identical on each sensor, which confirmed that they were completely interchangeable. Less than thirty minutes later they were installed on the opposite side from the original. The rears were a different story.

The nuts on the end of the through-bolt/stud/whatever-it-is are just spinning with the through-bolt/stud/whatever-it-is so I need to cut the nut end off flush and install some good stainless steel fasteners and swap the sensors left to right… which is on my list of things to do.

Thanks again, all the best, Steve

Hi Steve
a couple of things:
-the calibration distance is that between the bottom of the bump stop stub and the axle plate, not the frame and axle plate

-the calibration blocks are stepped so as to enable them to be used without removing the bump stop cushions. The top of the calibration block feeds up through the hole in the cushion and is automatically "centered" so that it lines up exactly with the bump stop stub... hence the hole bored through the centre of the calibration block which enables the bump stop stub to gain some purchase dead centre...

I note you also put out a plea in rr.net.... Take a look at "common Problems and fixes" in that forum, there is a huge amount of data on the EAS, including detailed photographs of disassembly/assembly of the valve block... including the 3 non return valves and the fact that two are put in with the o-rings facing upwards while the third has them facing down ,,,check it out!
Or look Dennis's Rover Rennovations site Range Rover, Audi, Mercedes and Lexus Air Suspension repairs and supplies by Rover Renovations.

good luck

Originally Posted by sroeb

How do I identify the none-return-valves? Is there one for each spring? And are they mounted on the top or bottom of the valve-block as viewed when installed?

Here's one I prepared earlier...


a bit more info here EAS Valve Block Renew PaulP38A.com

Cheers, Paul.

Hi Paul,

Thank you for the pic of the Non-Return-Valves, now that I see them I am familiar with them... familiar as in when I did the Valve-Block o-ring replacement I changed all three of the o-rings on those valves.
I did take the timer-relay out overnight and the truck leaked-down as it has been doing, in fact the leak-down was noticeable after just a few hours. Since I have replaced all of the air-springs and lines and taken great care to ensure the lines are fully engaged at all fittings I now believe the problem is in the valve-block... based on the collective info I am learning from you and other responses.

Over these last couple of months or so as I have had more time to work on this problem I have read as much as I can wherever I can about Range Rover EAS systems, and after following your link, thank you, I see that I had been to you site and found it very helpful and interesting indeed.

I have an extra valve-block that I picked-up along the way a few years ago. I put a kit into it to change all of the o-rings a while back and put it on the shelf, looks like it is time to take it off the shelf.

I'll keep you up to date, thank you again.

Steve

In doing so Steve, take a real close look at the state of the solenoids and the little rubber inserts...the solenoids " chatter " a fair bit and the rubber inserts are constantly "hammering" up and down when the system is adjusting... they develop indentations which are prone to cause leaks...

Hoges, I remember looking at those rubber tips on the valves when I did the valve-body o-ring replacement and noting that they had become indented... the rubber was also really quite hard. Are replacement tips available? Can the rubber be carefully cut back to provide a new surface? Is there a way to re-surface the valve face? Or any other suggestion?

Steve