LA

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Originally Posted by Eevo

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There was no test for EPO in the early days and there still isn't a test for re-injecting your own blood.
and again, its 1 test. cortisone in 99 helped him win 2004? (i might have years mixed up)


the people statements all point fingers towards others. "i got caught, cant have my medal so i'll try and take other down too. if i cant have it, noone can. i cant prove they were cheating but just trust me, i know they were".
LA played to the rules.
innocent until proven guilty. circumstantial evidence at best.

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IIRC there were two EPO tests devised early on, and it took several years for one to be adopted.

There are ways to see if autologous transfusions are used, they look at haematocrit levels and these days compare them to the riders 'biological passport' or baseline bloods.
In the past it was less cut and dried, the levels were tested and levels would either fall into a 'normal' range or 'suspect'.

Pretty sure Marco Pantani failed on this basis once ?

The riders that have implicated LA haven't all failed dope tests, only Floyd Landis, Tyler Hamilton and maybe Levi Leipheimer are convicted cheats (can't recall if Levii ever failed a control ?)

George Hincappie (LA's Lieutenant for many years) Dave Zabriskie (sp?) Matt White, etc never failed a doping control, but have come out and admitted they doped, damning LA in the process.

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Originally Posted by rick130

George Hincappie (LA's Lieutenant for many years) Dave Zabriskie (sp?) Matt White, etc never failed a doping control, but have come out and admitted they doped, damning LA in the process.

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that indicates to me that the process doesn't work
and LA might of been able to dope for 15years

that represents a failure of the anti dope people

Yep, but I hope there is no inference here that this diminishes individual responsibility.

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Originally Posted by rick130

The only reason doping is banned is for basic health reasons, otherwise it'd be open slather.

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sounds like darwinism to me...

(and I did realise the reason behind it having that crap beaten into me every year again, and again and again and again and its so depressing that by the time Ive sat through equity, WHS, drugs, fraud I find myself in need of the suicide awareness briefs)

I think it still applies..


if you want to try to squeeze 400PSI boost into a 1.1l diesel and enter it in an open event go for it, when it blows apart well yes, you get that the risks are generally well understood.

If you want to dope yourself up to the eyeballs to go that extra m/s faster for 10 minutes to win in an open event go for it, but when your blood pressure is so high your sphincter is expelled and your heart breaks apart your ribcage pulverizing your lungs and you become some strange mutated glow in the dark freak that could double for rolex in the fly II well yes, you get that, the risks are generally well understood.

Yeah, but not everyone does Dave, that's the thing. The guys who won't do drugs are either shunned, or quit (Graeme O'Bree a classic example) Same thing with Defys though- some folks simply can't come around to using the most performance enhanced model of the lot!

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Originally Posted by Eevo

that indicates to me that the process doesn't work
and LA might of been able to dope for 15years

that represents a failure of the anti dope people

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The process didn't work at the time because the scientific rigour required in order to adopt a new test method is extreme and can take years. Don't forget this class of pharmaceutical did not even exist commercially only 20 years ago (recombinant DNA based biopharmaceuticals) and we are talking about an athelete and team abusing the system more than 13 years ago.

Can't you accept that just because someone develops a new drug intended for healing people with anemia or aids or cancer (in the case of EPO), that the doping control bodies do not automatically begin developing test methods immediately for every new drug out there... However, guys like Dr Ferrari see the opportunity to boost performance through increasing the oxygen carrying capacity of the subject's blood and athletes that want to cheat will do so.

Reality is at the time of the early offenses, the athletes had access to better science, better doctors and better tech than the authorities but that has changed and hopefully moving forward the authorities will be ahead of the curve rather than behind. Regardless, cheating when you think you can't be caught is still cheating is it not?

The USPS team had a doping program, so many people have owned up to doping through the legal action of the USADA - all had so much to loose by doing so, their reputations, their lively hood, their family and friend's respect... not the kind of things people take lightly.

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Originally Posted by Scallops

[snip]
Same thing with Defys though- some folks simply can't come around to using the most performance enhanced model of the lot!

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:lol2:

Another ex-USPS rider admits to doping.

Kjaergaard confesses to doping while at Chicky World and US Postal

Kjaergaard Confesses To Doping While At Chicky World And US Postal | Cyclingnews.com

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Kjærgaard did not have to dope alone whilst at the US team, but was taken into the programme. “I was part of the now well-known U.S. Postal regime to prepare riders to the limit. I was on the carousel for nearly three seasons.”
However, he did not know what his teammates were doing, doping-wise, he claimed. “I did not have direct knowledge of this. It was a closed system, and I chose to keep it closed.”

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Was looking into the sponsors who have dumped LA recently, and being a bit of a Trek man, checked out their website. Couldn't find any reference to LA any longer, but this is what is written under their top tier road machines....


Race Performance / Train, race, win

Tour winners. Olympians. World Champions. These are our race performance test pilots. We work together with them to create bikes that are fast, strong, and perfectly suited to conquer every challenge on every road.

Got me thinking :D ....Tour winners on Treks. Well, LA ain't no more. Alberto Contador - I know he won on the Discovery team in 07 and 09 - were these stripped as 2010 was??

Just 2010 I think, it was a 2 year ban.

Cheers, Mick.

P.S. I might have to do something about the sticker on the Defender that says "Lance and I ride trek." :angel:

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Originally Posted by Killer

... I might have to do something about the sticker on the Defender that says "Lance and I ride trek." :angel:

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I was just saying the other day to a mate that there must be a lot of trek owners out there who feel a bit silly now...