frame materials for Road or Mountain

I think carbon is the best for frames, however, there's not enough knowledge and skill behind it, so it's like buying a metal frame made by a novice welder. Bars and posts are not the best application for carbon as there's not enough room to benefit from it's strengths and it has to be built to withstand the crushing force of the stem, brakes etc, so to keep it light, it has to have some sacrifice. If punters could be trusted to run the right bolt torques they could probably make these components lighter.
Lahar, (the carbon made DH frames)out last nearly anything I've heard of(for weight), the first 5 he made did 7 seasons of elite riders thrashing them(often not owners, so they were abused)without any failures,and most are still being raced(I think still without failures).
Carbon if not pushed beyond it's elasticity point(same with all materials)has a high resistance to failure from flexing(as does Ti), is stiffest for weight, and most durable, even from scratches if made right, and layered right.
The army and airforce, formular one etc, don't use carbon for any other reason other than it's structural benefits, moldability and longevity.
The weight game, and lack of experience/knowledge is what gives carbon a bad wrap, boosted by the horror stories that can't be shaken, that people regurgitate to replace having any experience with carbon.
I like steel and Ti though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sith

My road trainer is a Ridley Damoclese 09 full carbon , my race bike is Ridley Noah full carbon even the SMP saddle ... started on steel graduated to alloy .. but there is no comprimise when it comes to carbon fibre and geometry

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Big George Hincapie's new BMC is half aluminium, half carbon.
BMC say it's stiffer through the BB than their full carbon frame.

All materials have their pro's and con's and all can make an excellent frame, but from a mass marketing POV these days if it isn't carbon it doesn't sell, regardless of how heavy/dodgy some of the cheapy stuff is.....

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Originally Posted by Sith

My road trainer is a Ridley Damoclese 09 full carbon , my race bike is Ridley Noah full carbon even the SMP saddle ... started on steel graduated to alloy .. but there is no comprimise when it comes to carbon fibre and geometry

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Nice rides, and from what I've seen beautifully finished.

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Originally Posted by Scallops

<snip>

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/9...ahighlight.jpg

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I just glanced at the pic and knew without reading a sentence who made that ;)

So nobody like MOOTS Ti frames???
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...10/02/1596.jpg

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Originally Posted by isuzurover

So nobody like MOOTS Ti frames???
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...10/02/1596.jpg

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I like the welds.

Cheers, Mick.

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Originally Posted by isuzurover

So nobody like MOOTS Ti frames???

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I'd love one, but $$$$$$$ :eek:

Just like Litespeed for a roadie, or Seven, or better still Baum ('cause they're Aussie :thumbsup: )

I rode to the station at 0200hrs this morning on my nice light weight ally framed MTB, beautiful. I left work on route to Central station at 1400hrs on my nice light weight ally framed MTB. Half way there I narrowly missing a taxi who was too busy on his mobile phone to worry about his occupational responsibilties, the front brake gripped, the back wheel rose, my massive bulk shifted the frame 90 degrees to the left. therefore I rode the rear of my nice light weight ally framed MTB into a tree.

Result 1 buckled wheel, 3 broken spokes, 1 slightly bent crank.

I rode my nice light weight ally framed MTB (that was handling and vibrating and gear shifting like my 110) into the bike shop.

I rode the loaner, bulk carrier complete with truck sized suspension seat, home.

My legs are on fire. I allready miss my nice light weight ally framed MTB, my carbon seat pole and decent seat, my nice front shocks, my decent gear selectors, not these go round abominations

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Originally Posted by dobbo

I rode to the station at 0200hrs this morning on my nice light weight ally framed MTB, beautiful. I left work on route to Central station at 1400hrs on my nice light weight ally framed MTB. Half way there I narrowly missing a taxi who was too busy on his mobile phone to worry about his occupational responsibilties, the front brake gripped, the back wheel rose, my massive bulk shifted the frame 90 degrees to the left. therefore I rode the rear of my nice light weight ally framed MTB into a tree.

Result 1 buckled wheel, 3 broken spokes, 1 slightly bent crank.

I rode my nice light weight ally framed MTB (that was handling and vibrating and gear shifting like my 110) into the bike shop.

I rode the loaner, bulk carrier complete with truck sized suspension seat, home.

My legs are on fire. I allready miss my nice light weight ally framed MTB, my carbon seat pole and decent seat, my nice front shocks, my decent gear selectors, not these go round abominations

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A real mountainbiker would have pulled a bunny hop onto the roof of the taxi, rather than swerve ;) :D

Just think how nice your bike will feel when you get it back, and the extra strength you will have from riding the loaner;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by isuzurover

A real mountainbiker would have pulled a bunny hop onto the roof of the taxi, rather than swerve ;) :D

Just think how nice your bike will feel when you get it back, and the extra strength you will have from riding the loaner;)

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I'm honestly thinking of trading in the Tyax and getting a Cell.