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Thread: 300tdi Viscous Fan Bearing - SOLUTIONS!

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    Harper Creek
    Posts
    3,073

    300tdi Viscous Fan Bearing - SOLUTIONS!

    From spending a day investigating the perennial 300tdi viscous fan bearing dilemma I can report the following. There seems to be at least 4 different options to quiet a screaming bearing… This is a little long winded but hopefully helpful. For the time poor go to the very bottom of post!


    OPTION 1: The time poor, easy, expensive! Fix. Or say you have a cracked timing cover, or stripped threads on the air con tensioner/idler bolt holes.
    Replace timing cover with OEM part. Something like $400-500.

    -Remove viscous fan and shroud.
    -Remove main serpentine tensioner assembly and belt.
    -Remove air-con tensioner and belt.
    -Rattle off Crank pulley bolt, remove crank pulley
    -Rattle off all 10mm head M8 bolts that hold timing cover.
    -Replace timing cover with new and re-assemble.
    -Assuming the crank bolt isn’t welded / loctited in place maybe an hour to do above.


    OPTION 2: Use this if the existing viscous fan bearing is shot and the 4bolt flange is broken (or breaks as you press it off!). The LRover 4bolt press fit flange and press fit bearing is essentially the same as the bearing and flange from a EA/EB/ED Ford Falcon water pump. So buy a new water pump, approx $60 for a good quality non OEM. Introduce pump to Mr Hydraulic Press.

    -Support pump housing on press with the impeller down and 4 bolt flange up.
    -Bear on the centre spindle, the bearing will press down till the flange contacts the pump housing and then the flange will press off the spindle.
    -Continue to press bearing and impellor out of housing.
    -Now get a little creative and first press the impeller from the inner spindle, then the other water pump components (things will break but the bearing is stronger than the rest). You will be left with a water pump bearing and 4bolt flange that looks, and some scrap for the bin (image2).
    -This bearing is a little longer in the body than the factory one, the front spindle is also a little longer and obviously it has an inner spindle as well (image1).
    -The design of the front cover means that excess length projects into the timing case and is no problem at all.
    -Also note the 4 bolt flange is slightly different (images4,5). The 4 bolts all line up and shaft diameter is correct, but the thicker flanger needs to be accounted for(see later).
    -Prepare Ford bearing for 300tdi service by first removing the inside spindle (there is plenty of clearance inside the timing housing so it doesn’t need to be cut-off flush)
    -If you were real schmick you could turn it off in a lathe, but a 1mm disc on grinder does the job.
    -the outside spindle is too long so cut it to the total depth of flange broach. Please Please Please chamfer the edges, I damaged a flange (from a wrecker) when the sharp edge dug in when pressing the bearing in.
    -Now take the flange place it thread down on the press, line up bearing and with a little anti-seize press the bearing into the flange.
    -The flange needs to contact the bearing spindle shoulder.
    -So now you have a new bearing and flange ready to go in!


    -Now to fit it.
    -Invert timing cover in press and support. Drive out the squeeling bearing and 4bolt flange from the inside.
    - Turn timing cover over (outisde facing up) and then press the Ford bearing and flange into the timing cover with a little anti-seize.
    -The all important measurement is that the outside face of the drive flange (where it contacts the pulley) must sit 11mm from the outside of the timing cover (image3).
    -This will ensure the belt will run true.
    -Reassemble.


    OPTION 3: You can purchase the bearing alone from a few Lrover Parts suppliers (The one I paid $130 inc freight is simply a water pump bearing with spindles hacked off- see below). This option requires no machining of spindles as it is done for you.
    Press out the old bearing as above, then press in the new using your old 4 bolt flange.



    OPTION 4: This is the real money saver if your 4 bolt flange is intact, timing cover is intact and you are just fighting a squeeling bearing. You can buy the water pump bearing that will do the job. I went to four Cairns bearing suppliers and finally came up trumps at AWB Bearings with a KOYO part number 88580 2RS cost $33.75. Interestingly SKF do not produce/ will not sell the part that is used in the OEM timing cover and they do not stock a generic pump bearing of the correct size

    -Take bearing, remove one spindle
    -Cut other spindle to depth of flange broach.
    -After removing the original bearing, press off the 4bolt flange and then press modified 88580 2RS and old 4bolt flange back into housing.




    With all these above methods apart from replacing the cover there is a risk!
    1/ The timing housing is pretty strong (possible to crack it though?)
    2/ The bearings are pretty bloody strong.
    3/ The flanges are **** weak.
    The OEM leaves are soft- see my repair job (should be okay for a spare)
    Havent pressed a new Falcon waterpump but the
    one from a wrecker I was planning on using cracked when the spindle lip dug in on some roughness (can see it in picture)

    Soooo take it real easy on the flanges.







    THE SHORT VERSION

    If I was to do this again I would know that.

    OEM timing cover -$450
    LRover Parts supplier -$130 (modified bearing for you- its an 88580)
    EA/EB/ED Falcon Water pump - $60 (youll get a new flange)
    KOYO 88580 2RS bearing - $33.75

    So then I would:

    1/ Remove cover.
    2/ Press out dead bearing.
    3/ Press off OEM flange.
    4/ If it breaks buy a new falcon water pump.
    or 4/ If it doesnt break buy an 88580 2RS.
    or 4/ If it all goes to crap and the timing cover breaks buy a new one!


    Steve
    Attached Images Attached Images
    '95 130 dual cab fender (gone to a better universe)
    '10 130 dual cab fender (getting to know it's neurons)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Posts
    32
    Finally a solution - Thanks for that - well done

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
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    under a rock, next to a tree, at Broadmarsh
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    removing bearing from cover

    I haven't got around to it this yet, but I am going to heat the cover before removing the bearing.

    To do this I am going to use; some leather gloves, a double burner gas camp stove, a suitable tray that will allow the cover to be submerged and some coolant mix ( to raise the boiling point a bit ).

    Bring the fluid to boil and push the bearing out, hopefully easily as the alloy cover should expand more than the steel on the outside of the bearing, and then push the new bearing in.

    I think the most critical point to watch when reinstalling the bearing and the flange, is getting the distance right from the face of the fan hub to the mounting face on the back of the cover. Has anyone already got a accurate measurement for this ?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    West Gippsland - Victoria
    Posts
    2,707
    Hi Arthur, I replaced the bearing and flange on on my 300 Tdi. The distance measurement on mine was 10.5 mm.

    I used a mates 20 ton press and was particularly careful not to crack the aluminium casting. Before pressing the old bearing out I cut the old spindle just behind the cast flange with a 1 mm disc. This meant I was able to support the casting on the spindle boss to reduce the chance of cracking the casting.

    The replacement Ford water pump cost me les than $40 and its machined flange was a perfect fit for the Landy viscous coupling.

    I would not like to do this job without a press and suitable pieces of metal/tube to pack it up 'just right'.


    Deano

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    under a rock, next to a tree, at Broadmarsh
    Posts
    6,739

    another link


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
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    Tas
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    3
    Arthur
    How about using oil instead of coolant as you can get to a much higher temperature.
    Tim

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Tatura, Vic
    Posts
    5,415
    I purchased a water pump from Repco and guess what, the bearing was about 2mm smaller in diameter than the OE. Goes to show, some times after market is not as good a quality as OE.

    This was 13 months ago and I found a second hand one which felt good. It died last weekend so I am now doing it again, when I source a bearing
    Dave.

    I was asked " Is it ignorance or apathy?" I replied "I don't know and I don't care."



    1996 TDI ES. 2003 TD5 HSE

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    under a rock, next to a tree, at Broadmarsh
    Posts
    6,739

    'Fred's' cool, but 'Daisy' is dropping her belt !

    'Daisy' has just wrecked another serpentine belt by running off one of the vee's of the belt, wearing that vee completely away. I then spent ages this afternoon try everything for alignment and I think the only thing left now to do, is changing the bearing for the fan hub.
    With the pulley still on, there is the barest movement when twisting the pulley from side to side, I didn't think that movement was that bad, but something isn't right to wreck a second belt the same way.

    My idea with using a straight edge, may work better with a purpose built tool that misses the power steering pump pulley when swung over to the waterpump pulley from the viscous hub / fan pulley.

    Again the differences in alignment are very slight, so more work making a better tool is required to get a finer measurement.

    There is also a possibility that the bush or roll pin that is fitted into the rear lug of the alternator is off centre and that would skew the alternator pulley around as well.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    under a rock, next to a tree, at Broadmarsh
    Posts
    6,739

    flash point

    Quote Originally Posted by tim_m View Post
    Arthur
    How about using oil instead of coolant as you can get to a much higher temperature.
    Tim
    Hi Tim

    As I would be using the gas stove to heat up the liquid, I think the hot oil would be too dangerous.
    .

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    NSW far north coast
    Posts
    14,525
    Quote Originally Posted by wrinklearthur View Post
    I haven't got around to it this yet, but I am going to heat the cover before removing the bearing.

    To do this I am going to use; some leather gloves, a double burner gas camp stove, a suitable tray that will allow the cover to be submerged and some coolant mix ( to raise the boiling point a bit ).

    Bring the fluid to boil and push the bearing out, hopefully easily as the alloy cover should expand more than the steel on the outside of the bearing, and then push the new bearing in.

    I think the most critical point to watch when reinstalling the bearing and the flange, is getting the distance right from the face of the fan hub to the mounting face on the back of the cover. Has anyone already got a accurate measurement for this ?
    Too complicated Arthur.

    All you have to do is get the cover to around 100*C with a soft flame on a blow lamp (the old spit and pop test is sufficient, when water spits and pops off the cover it's hot enough, no more heat is warranted, it will only hurt things) and the bearing will fall out.

    I've replaced many bearings in race car hubs, gearboxes and diff side plates this way and it's dead simple and quick.

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