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Thread: A couple of QR locos lying down (for a rest? )

  1. #11
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    So how do two modern loco's lose brakes?
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro_The_Swift View Post
    So how do two modern loco's lose brakes?
    A very good question and I can’t wait for the findings to be made public.

  3. #13
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    Bit of a mistery. The independent brake valve may have been cut out, but the brakes should have applied by an automatic application and why was the dynamic brake not used if that class has one. No 3 hose bag between loco’s could have come undone, flexible hose to the brake cylinder may have ruptured, still one would think that there would be enough air to at least slow them down even though light engines. In my day years ago l spent six years firing before passing my drs ticket and reading some reports from the ATSB I think there is a lack of experience in a lot of these accidents.
    Lindsay

  4. #14
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    Hi folks and I just received a preliminary report and apparently the air failed, thus no brakes and with no air, Dynamic braking will not work.

    The reason they were laying on the inside of the curve was because they had actually derail on the outside of the last opposite curve and slide to a stop where they were.

    Must have been one hairy ride?

  5. #15
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    I thought that trains used a similar (conceptually) system to trucks, as the air drops off the brakes begin to apply automatically.
    Dave

    "In a Landrover the other vehicle is your crumple zone."

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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 87County View Post
    Interesting snippets of history there Tim, thank you.

    Of course there is no signal box there any more. Both PN and QR have bankers stationed in their own sidings just south of Willow Tree these days ready to add their many thousands of hp to assist shoving 8000+ tons of train up and over the hill.

    In the good ol' days you could leave the bank engines at Willow Tree station and walk over to the pub for a meal, alas no more with the sidings well out of town.

    This is QR's pair, it will be interesting to see if they're repaired or replaced because they're required 24/7 for the coal trains to Newcastle.
    I think they work out of Werris Creek nowadays (
    A railway station opened at Werris Creek in 1878, and was moved to its present location in 1880.
    [7]
    The heritage listed Werris Creek station building, built in the late 1880s, was designed by the famed NSW railway engineer
    John Whitton
    . The
    Australian Railway Monument
    was recently
    [when?]
    opened near the station and part of the station building has been opened as a railway museum. Werris Creek railway station - Wikipedia ).


    A mate I spent 10 days in and around Quirindi, Werris Creek, Willow Tree a few years ago watching and filming them use two extra loco's to push the trains over the hill, which is amazing to watch. One day we

    almost got locked in the grain yard there, as the guys didn't realise we were down by the tracks so went home and locked the gates, luckily we found a back gate to a dirt road, otherwise I was going to have to see

    if the D2 would climb over the ballast and tracks of the grain siding to get around a fence.


    Coming down the range I think they have a runoff area for trains at the 1st road crossing before the old abandoned Willow Tree station IIRC, which also seemed to be their marker for disengaging the helper locomotives.
    2005 D3 TDV6 Present
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blknight.aus View Post
    I thought that trains used a similar (conceptually) system to trucks, as the air drops off the brakes begin to apply automatically.
    Hi Dave and while in both cases, trucks and trains, when a breakaway occurs, the brakes are automatically applied when the air is released by the breakaway.

    But this is achieved in different ways.

    On a truck, the trailer brakes are spring loaded and requires air to release them.

    On railway cars, freight wagons and passenger cars, there is a brake cylinder which is a double sided piston.

    When a locomotive first couples to a train and the air is connected ( called the Train Line ), the air in the brake cylinders “pumps up” through one side of the piston and at the same time air runs through a valve to the other side of the piston.

    Once the brake cylinders are pumped up and equalised, the brake are now in the released position.

    If the driver wants to apply the brakes, he reduces the pressure in the “Train Line” and this reduces the pressure on one side of the brake cylinder piston on each bogie throughout the train.

    With the pressure in other side of each brake cylinder piston being higher, the brakes are applied. The more air pressure you release from the Train Line, the harder the brakes are applied.

    If a breakaway occurs, you get a total release of the Train Line air pressure, which causes an emergency application of the brake in the entire train.

    If a breakaway does occur, you have around 20 minutes to go and wind on hand brakes, because, unlike truck trailers, where their brakes remain on till air is reapplied, train brakes will eventually “leak off”.

    The locomotive brake system is different in that it needs air to apply the brakes. Something similar to you putting your foot on your brake peddle.

    And just like in your vehicle, if you run out of brake fluid, no brakes. With a locomotive, if you run out of air again, no brakes.

    But there is an additional outcome when a locomotive runs out of air.

    When you first start a locomotive, the electrics used to drive the locomotive are automatically disabled until there is sufficient Brake Pipe pressure to apply the brakes if needed.

    Once the brake pipe pressure reaches the minimum need to apply the brakes, the electrics can be controlled.

    But the reverse is also the case, where if the brake pipe pressure drops below the minimum safe level, the electrics are automatically disabled, and unfortunately, this includes disabling Dynamic Braking.

    So as I posted above, that crew must of had one hairy ride.

  8. #18
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  9. #19
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    " Quick fellers, out with the Grease Guns & let's not waste the opportunity".

    I also wondered how come they landed on the inside of the curve? Is there no centrifugal force around that way?



    Curious.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivesafe View Post
    Hi Dave and while in both cases, trucks and trains, when a breakaway occurs, the brakes are automatically applied when the air is released by the breakaway.

    But this is achieved in different ways.

    On a truck, the trailer brakes are spring loaded and requires air to release them.

    On railway cars, freight wagons and passenger cars, there is a brake cylinder which is a double sided piston.

    When a locomotive first couples to a train and the air is connected ( called the Train Line ), the air in the brake cylinders “pumps up” through one side of the piston and at the same time air runs through a valve to the other side of the piston.

    Once the brake cylinders are pumped up and equalised, the brake are now in the released position.

    If the driver wants to apply the brakes, he reduces the pressure in the “Train Line” and this reduces the pressure on one side of the brake cylinder piston on each bogie throughout the train.

    With the pressure in other side of each brake cylinder piston being higher, the brakes are applied. The more air pressure you release from the Train Line, the harder the brakes are applied.

    If a breakaway occurs, you get a total release of the Train Line air pressure, which causes an emergency application of the brake in the entire train.

    If a breakaway does occur, you have around 20 minutes to go and wind on hand brakes, because, unlike truck trailers, where their brakes remain on till air is reapplied, train brakes will eventually “leak off”.

    The locomotive brake system is different in that it needs air to apply the brakes. Something similar to you putting your foot on your brake peddle.

    And just like in your vehicle, if you run out of brake fluid, no brakes. With a locomotive, if you run out of air again, no brakes.

    But there is an additional outcome when a locomotive runs out of air.

    When you first start a locomotive, the electrics used to drive the locomotive are automatically disabled until there is sufficient Brake Pipe pressure to apply the brakes if needed.

    Once the brake pipe pressure reaches the minimum need to apply the brakes, the electrics can be controlled.

    But the reverse is also the case, where if the brake pipe pressure drops below the minimum safe level, the electrics are automatically disabled, and unfortunately, this includes disabling Dynamic Braking.

    So as I posted above, that crew must of had one hairy ride.
    cheers, sounds like an overly complicated system...

    mind you some of the new safety protocol junk thats coming down line with Air ABS trailers is a nightmare and if you get it just wrong you wind up with a trailer that wont brake while it has air pressure in the tanks, which is a problem because the park brake release charges those tanks....
    Dave

    "In a Landrover the other vehicle is your crumple zone."

    For spelling call Rogets, for mechanicing call me.

    Fozzy, 2.25D SIII Ex DCA Ute
    Tdi autoManual d1 (gave it to the Mupion)
    Archaeoptersix 1990 6x6 dual cab(This things staying)


    If you've benefited from one or more of my posts please remember, your taxes paid for my skill sets, I'm just trying to make sure you get your monies worth.
    If you think you're in front on the deal, pay it forwards.

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