Winch Recovery - No Trees

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Originally Posted by mike_ie

...4x4 experience here, you aussies are the experts at that :D

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Hiya Mike,

Yep, there are many variations on the same concept and the one I use the most is one that works where I temporarily stop the most, alluvial environments... :D

I'd settle for antipodeans, I'm a Kiwi but pleased enough to be living beside a bunch of Aussies... ...in New Zealand... ;) ... land of long mud roads... :angel:

I forgot to mention I have four 800mm long screw in sand anchors commonly used to take the weight of stays on radio and met towers for in sandy or soft soil conditions.

Cheers,

Phil

Great thread, some good ideas here.

On an outback trip, space & weight are at a premium. Best if anything carried has two or more uses. The dragchain & pegs idea fits the bill if it works.

Hmmm... I can foresee some testing on Stockton Beach soon..

Regards
Max P

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Originally Posted by windsock

Hiya Mike,

Yep, there are many variations on the same concept and the one I use the most is one that works where I temporarily stop the most, alluvial environments... :D

I'd settle for antipodeans, I'm a Kiwi but pleased enough to be living beside a bunch of Aussies... ...in New Zealand... ;) ... land of long mud roads... :angel:

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Australia, New Zealand - there's a difference? :p

May have to get you to guide me down some of these tracks when I'm over there after Christmas... :angel:

Thanks for the great ideas - especially the links - would seem that store bought ground anchors are a bit of a waste and the home made methods are better.

As some of the issues seem to be the weight and space to carry extra gear I was thinking what else could be used other than the spare wheel - what about a high lift jack laid in its side in a trench with the winch cable connected to the lifting tongue and large pegs hammered through holes the in main bar of the jack. The jack would be supported by the dirt around the trench and the stakes.

I guess that the old method of dig and jack your car and fill the hole under the wheel/s is the best way to get unstuck if no there is no snatch available or anchor point to winch. I am just getting too old and too unfit to do much digging these days.

Cheers

Garry

Hi,
Ive used the old spare wheel burried in the sand trick, dig a large hole, lay the spare in flat and attach winch cable and rebury the whole lot) its hard work and "usually" works. I also used to manufacture the Pull Pal under licence in South Africa, i think they were the first folding groud anchor, they were brilliant but expensive to manufacture (special grade steel on the blade and attaching points therefore expensive to sell. They were brilliant in all terrain though. there are alot of "copies" around now though. we also had the patent on a combo hi lift jack and anchore but in severe testing the hi lift shafts could bend killing 2 tools.

The other methods are cheap and effictive but you must be prepared for some hard work especially in sand.
Cheers
Mal

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Originally Posted by garrycol

As some of the issues seem to be the weight and space to carry extra gear I was thinking what else could be used other than the spare wheel - what about a high lift jack laid in its side in a trench with the winch cable connected to the lifting tongue and large pegs hammered through holes the in main bar of the jack. The jack would be supported by the dirt around the trench and the stakes.

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Hmm, dunno about you, but my hi-lift jack is a pain in the ass to operate once dirt gets into the mechanism, just from being bolted to the roofrack, to the point where there is a can of WD-40 in the toolbox specifically to wash it down before use. I figure that burying it in the sand wold render it useless pretty quickly, even if you do wash it down once you get home. And again, it comes down to distribution of force - the hedgehogs work because there are two or more of them, each loaded off in different directions. I'd imagine that loading the hi-lift straight down its central axis would run the risk of it pulling straight out, same as a single hedgehog would. Not to mention the possibility of bending the jack, rendering your last line of defense in terms of recovery, useless. [quote]

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I guess that the old method of dig and jack your car and fill the hole under the wheel/s is the best way to get unstuck if no there is no snatch available or anchor point to winch. I am just getting too old and too unfit to do much digging these days.

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No such thing as too old mate, it just means you're getting smart enough to not want so spend the day digging holes ;) How about doing your off-roading with a mate with a similarly sized vehicle? I hear that Defenders make great anchor points for pulling things like Landcruisers and Pajero's out of trouble.... :angel:

I am trying to think of where I recently saw a link...

Basically it was a piece of flat steel with a shackle ring on one end and a series of holes down each edge - the holes were spaced in a zig-zag fashion.

The rods used to secure it to the ground were hexagonal and the reason for this was that, when finished hauling yourself out of trouble, you used a spanner to rotate the rods - turning the hole they were in into a round hole and making it easier to extract the rods.

I wish I could think of where I saw it...

I carry a set of MAXTRAX in the roofpod of the D2 (they are too long to fit sideways in the back) which I purchased for Stockton Beach - never got to use them but they are still in there.

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Originally Posted by garrycol

The 3,2,1 Star Picket version - with a load capacity of only 2100kg - is that enough for a heavily bogged heavy full sized 4wd - do you just pull the pickets out of the ground.

Garry

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G'day Garry,
Recently at training we set up a 3:2:1 holdfast and connected to the Land Loser with a Tirfor winch in a single line pull. I chocked all four wheels with bricks and put it in low range reverse, with the handbrake on and we were able to drag it across a coarse bitumen surface. The holdfast never even looked like moving.

I should have mentioned before, that the pickets are 1200mm long and are driven 2/3 of their length into the ground. We use 16mm sisal rope for non-life recovery and 11mm synthetic for life-support when we lash the pickets together. The vee-face of the pickets must face the load being supported/recovered and the three groups of pickets must be in a straight line, otherwise the holdfast will not support as much and may fail.

Naturally the load the holdfast will support varies with the soil type and condition but 2100kg is an estimated safe working load (SWL),

Cheers Charlie

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Originally Posted by chazza

G'day Garry,
Recently at training we set up a 3:2:1 holdfast and connected to the Land Loser with a Tirfor winch in a single line pull.

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Chazza, I don't suppose you have any pictures of the 3:2:1 setup that you use? I have a fair mental picture of what you are describing, I haven't seen one in action, and I wouldn't mind getting a look....

The old holdfasts and pins were rated to pull a nominal 4 ton, same as a single line pull on the front winch of a Diamond T. Heavy stuff to cart around and hard work removing the pins once the task was finished. Only problem with home made stuff such as equal angle is the strength of the steel if the casualty suddenly shifts during the pull.