Rope for extension straps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by XDrive

Using a shackle as a roller, will destroy rope or straps as this is clearly not what the item was designed for.

XDrive

---

I would have to question this: Yes it may be true but why do all of the winches with synthetic rope run Hawse fairleads then? From what you have just stated if I were to use my winch and run the winch line not straight and it has to be at an angle being guided by the "hawse fairleads" that my winch rope will have to be thrown away after my winching episode.
A winch strap I can see it being more damaged than a rope as the rope is smaller and round and is designed to deform where a strap is more flat and would have to be folded in 1/2 to fit through a D shackle.

Crash

I personally do not like or use a 'hawse fairlead'. Hawse Fairleads were designed with two varying 'camps of thought'

One camp was of the opinion that using synthetic rope on a 'roller fairlead' would result in the rope, when under tension, falling between the gaps in the rollers and either jamming the roller or cutting the rope. This has since been proven incorrect and many people actually still use roller fairleads with synthetic rope, myself included. You can buy 'poly rollers', which are a snugger fit, thus eliminating the gap even more, if so desired. Rollers should also be inspected carefully for any 'burrs' which may be present if cable has been used previously on the rollers as this may affect the synthetic rope.

The second camp was more of an aesthetic look, as more and more people wished to have a flush mount look to the vehicle, some manufacturers also 'pushed' for this to be the norm and sited reasons such as no protrusions beyond the face of the bar etc.

Some hawse style fairleads are well manufactured and take into account the radius and also make sure that the back of the hawse is not sharp etc. Others are manufactured in an inferior manner and have little regard for any of these issues. Poorly fitting hawse fairleads are also common as the opening of the hawse does not line up with the opening on the bar and therefore the rope is dragged over a sharp object behind the hawse, contributing to the wear on the synthetic rope.

The amount of friction and therefore heat which is allowed to transfer from the hawse to the rope when winching has stopped, also contributes to the degradation of the rope. Some manufacturers discourage the use of a hawse on synthetic rope for this very reason. Particularly when the rope is used at an angle.

I have seen a hawse fairlead, which had a 'gouge' in the corner that I could comfortably fit my little finger into, which was the result of one winching session, done at an angle. The rope itself also showed district 'feathering'.

'Bunching' or squeezing rope or straps into areas that are not correctly sized, such as shackles, pulley blocks and the like is one way to damage and in some cases destroy equipment very fast. As has been mentioned earlier, taking into account the correct sizes as well as radius in regards to synthetic rope and cable is something which unfortunately is overlooked when it comes to a lot of recovery equipment and recovery situations and leads to premature failure of equipment and in some cases damage to equipment, property and people.

Training, in the correct use of equipment, is also sadly overlooked. People are happy to spend vast sums of money on their vehicles and equipment and are very reluctant to spend any money on learning how to drive their vehicle correctly or use the equipment correctly.

Regards

XDrive

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tank

How does that work? Do you pull the knob bit through the loop, if so what stops it pulling right back out, Regards Frank.

---

Frank, have a look at this video. It will explain it all.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP74FE4p8to[/ame]

Don.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Don 130

Frank, have a look at this video. It will explain it all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP74FE4p8to

Don.

---

Thanks for that, quite interesting, at the end of the video another video came up demonstrating the superior strength of Dyneema rope. They used 3/8" dia steel rope which had a number of Bulldog clamps forming the sling eye and guess what the steel rope broke at the clamping point of of the last (toward centre) clamp. Bulldog clamps should never have been used as they weaken the wire rope at the clamping point.
I reckon that if they had of used a proper spliced eye on the wire rope it would have not failed as easily, and the fact that the wire rope did not part, only unwound some outer strands. Whereas the dyneema rope totally snapped and recoiled violently. A great bit of False advertising, nothing against dyneema type ropes but why cant they compare like with like, Regards Frank.

This is becoming an interesting discusion.

Ree the rope shackles-
Would there be any reduction in the rating of any shackles made of Dyneema?
If joining 2 straps or Dyneema to a strap would the smaller diameters involved be an issue?
(I'd expect the rope would have thimbles each end.
Straps would have the normal flat sections of thier loops)

Just to quickly add into the thread
I use dyneema a lot
Lots of long range 200m plus recoveries

To make a loop for winch hook or shackle tie a bowline
It will be able to be untied with a little loving
I have tied a bowline in mid section of rope at times when needed

Obviously not as high breaking strain as splicing but on 12mm rope a bowline will not fail
And if it does ... Re tie and re think your recovery dig more high lift and pack out etc etc your load is too high

S

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by roverrescue

Just to quickly add into the thread
I use dyneema a lot
Lots of long range 200m plus recoveries

To make a loop for winch hook or shackle tie a bowline
It will be able to be untied with a little loving
I have tied a bowline in mid section of rope at times when needed

Obviously not as high breaking strain as splicing but on 12mm rope a bowline will not fail
And if it does ... Re tie and re think your recovery dig more high lift and pack out etc etc your load is too high

S

---

I have never used Dyneema rope before, but I can imagine that a Bowline or any other Knot (bend or sheet) designed for natural fibre rope would slip and fuse under the friction of slipping.
Nylon ropes are banned in the Rigging industry for that reason as well as stretch and rebound (not Dyneema), esp, in blocks and tackles, most rigging knots, which were developed for sailing ships and Hemp and Sisal type ropes rely on the fact that their surfaces offer a lot of friction and use that fact to work properly.
Heat generated by friction is a killer for Nylon and Dyneema type ropes, I have busted Nylon rope when used in a truckies hitch, you will notice when you tie a truckies hitch with Nylon that you need 2 sheep shanks to stop the loop slipping and unravelling.
When I was head rigger at Cockatoo Island in Sydney I used to build my own specialist slings and we had an accredited test facility, so I have loaded and broken many wire slings, there really is not much flyback as stretch is minimal, usually the wires in the outer strands snap, gradually (Gives a warning unlike chain or nylon), and when individual strands break they unwind (each strand consists of a number of individual wires), they do not fly back to anchor points they unwind and not at a speed that requires a high speed camera to see, all this happens slowly compared to Dyneema that parts with no visible or audible sounds, (except for the tails of the break breaking the sound barrier, you know that loud crack) and springs back to each end, I know this stuff is light and it won't cut you in half, neither will wire rope unless you are stupid enough to be straddling it and are deaf and blind. My point is that wire rope is not as dangerous as some of these experts in 4WD magazines are making out and that wire rope is much more versatile and physically surface area strong.
I have recovered vehicles in areas where Dyneema rope either would not have done the job or survived intact after the job, whereas wire rope comes through to fight another day.
I have used the 15 ton hydraulic winch on my truck to crush 4 cars (2 bottom and 2 top) down to the height of one car, with no apparent damage to the wire cable.
Point is Dyneema is ok if you nurse it and maintain it (that's if you want it to last) and only occaisonly use it, I have an inbuilt mistrust of Nylon type ropes, Dyneema included and I can't see a scenario where I would use it over conventional rigging gear, to each his own, Regards Frank.

Frank I think you said it all
" I have never used Dyneema rope before"

I have been using it for near ten years
I still use the first rope I ever bought
Yes it is frayed and tattered but it still works fine
I have broken rope perhaps five times, it just falls to ground
Good sign to reduce loads so more digging jacking etc etc

In both 10mm, 12mm and 14mm dyneema Bowlines work fine do not slip or fuse and can be undone? I have done it more times than I can be bothered counting

I carry 100m to 200m of rope on bush trips ... Try that with your beloved steel ropes !

Steve

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by roverrescue

Frank I think you said it all
" I have never used Dyneema rope before"

I have been using it for near ten years
I still use the first rope I ever bought
Yes it is frayed and tattered but it still works fine
I have broken rope perhaps five times, it just falls to ground
Good sign to reduce loads so more digging jacking etc etc

In both 10mm, 12mm and 14mm dyneema Bowlines work fine do not slip or fuse and can be undone? I have done it more times than I can be bothered counting

I carry 100m to 200m of rope on bush trips ... Try that with your beloved steel ropes !

Steve

---

Try dragging a Disco 2 over eco drains with your dynemma rope, many a time I have had to tow from a good 100m away with the wire rope dragging over the tops of at least one eco drain.
I'M not saying Dyneema rope doesn't have some good points, but it's the bad points that rule it out for me, that's why I have never used it, not because I'm biased about it, it simply would not work for the uses I put wire rope to, with no problems and I have never broken wire rope in over 40 years, so it is horses for courses, Regards Frank.

Happily
Your 45kg of 100m of wire rope
Vs less than a kg of 100m of dyneema

It might scuff over a drainage ditch but it will be okay

Your living in the past tank ;)

S