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Thread: Brakes!!!

  1. #11
    JDNSW's Avatar
    JDNSW is offline RoverLord Silver Subscriber
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    Remote servo will make no difference to the leverage.

    John
    John

    JDNSW
    1986 110 County 3.9 diesel
    1970 2a 109 2.25 petrol

  2. #12
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    Not so much leverage, but volume of fluid required. I'm a mechanical engineer and are taking this problem back to first principles.
    If the full system is bled correctly & the pads are adjusted right surely the additional volume of a larger master cylinder would be no more than say 20% more fluid! I would love if someone has the bore and stroke of both units so I can do an accurate comparison.
    You can see where I'm going with this, I reckon finding a 107/11inch Master Cylinder must be heading into rocking horse S@## territory... and would love another work around....
    Cheers
    Jason

  3. #13
    JDNSW's Avatar
    JDNSW is offline RoverLord Silver Subscriber
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    Total fluid volume is irrelevant - what matters is the volume displaced.

    I seem to remember that it is possible to adapt the Series 2/2a master cylinders, although these have two bolts not three, and I have an idea a custom pushrod is needed.

    John
    John

    JDNSW
    1986 110 County 3.9 diesel
    1970 2a 109 2.25 petrol

  4. #14
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    There is a conversion kit using a Series II master cylinder at the bottom of this page Land Rover Series One Brake Parts Page 3
    No damage to outrigger but allows the use of a more common master cylinder which could be changed to the LWB version. Showing 'out of stock' but all the parts could be made locally if required.

    I would expect that using a SWB master cylinder would mean more travel to get the displacement needed to operate the LWB wheel cylinders but you should be able to get a firm pedal (if you haven't hit the floor first).

    Do the brake shoes have full contact in the drums ? Had a similar problem and it was the shoes not matching the radius of the drums so the shoes were flexing. Chalked the shoes, refitted the drum & wheel, gently applied the brake and turned the wheel. When taken apart you could see the point of contact so carefully filed down the shoes and re-checked until the contact area was about 75%. Problem solved.


    Colin
    '56 Series 1 with homemade welder
    '65 Series IIa Dormobile
    '70 SIIa GS
    '76 SIII 88" (Isuzu C240)
    '81 SIII FFR
    '95 Defender Tanami
    '58 Series II (sold)
    Motorcycles :-
    Vincent Rapide, Panther M100, Norton BIG4, Electra & Navigator, Matchless G80C

  5. #15
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    Thanks for all the idea's guys, I'm going away for a week so won't be able to try them out till I get back!! So she'll be sitting on blocks a little longer.
    Cheers
    Jason

  6. #16
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    Hi All,
    Back from some time up the mid north coast of NSW in the D4, I must admit I was impressed with it. Its official title is the wife's car and I have the "real" Landy, but this thing just ploughed through long runs of rutted soft sand without me even letting the tyres down, deep mud bogs etc all I did was use the button to raise the suspension... anyhow I digress,
    These brakes are doing my head in, I had my dad up today a retired fitter/ car racer/son of north coast banana grower who used to get around the bananas in a S1 when they where newish, he has been giving me flack about not knowing how to bleed brakes properly etc, so today was his turn at it and he went home with his tail between his legs....
    So the story to date is at some stage the '56 has 11 inch drums fitted to the front and a full floating S2 rear end as well as a remote brake booster, I have put in a rebuilt three flange master cylinder for a 86", all the brake components are new except for the piping.
    I bled the system on my own fitting a air compressor fitting to a spare reservoir tank lid and running it at about 30psi, this was good for flushing the old lines and getting fluid through the system. With the reservoir tank under pressure I would get pedal pressure, otherwise there was nothing.
    If I clamp off all three flexible hoses I would get full pedal pressure, so I'm thinking master cylinder & booster are all good and bled.
    So we take the clamp off the rear system and with dad pumping I bleed both rear sides, I do get bubbles out but he is doing 15-20 pedal pumps to get any pedal pressure, we repeat about 8 times each side until it flows clear.
    Move to the front and repeat for both sides, similar story some bubbles but still no pedal pressure until 15+ pumps. We redo the rear and then the front again as well as the nipple on the remote booster and then see if there is air in the master cylinder.
    We have run about 5 bottles of brake fluid through the system, removed some bubbles but have no pedal pressure at all! If I start her up and pump like mad I do get pedal pressure and I can hear the booster working but as soon as I turn it off the pedal goes back to to the floor.
    I'm looking to blame the master cylinder at the moment and may pull it out to see if it was rebuilt correctly as I have run out of culprits....
    Any thoughts/clues/theories or wives tails are appreciated at this stage.
    Cheers
    Jason

  7. #17
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    bleeding hard isnt it

    You have to think " out of the box" or a non conventional method

    I would try this:

    Disconnect the main back and front pipes from the master cylinder Y junction . Get hold of two plastic bottles and attach the bottles high up in the air , higher the better , use some plastic tube from the bottles down to the pipes you disconnected .

    Remove the 4 bleed screws and push in a plastic tube going to a bottle = 4 bottles .

    Now fill the 2 high bottles with fluid and let the laws of physics go to work. Leave it overnight and the fluid should come out the 4 bleed holes .

  8. #18
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    Have you got your brake shoes adjusted up tight?
    Bleed with them tight not able to turn the wheel.
    Does the snail adjuster tighten up the shoe without running out of travel?
    If you cant get the rears to lock with the adjuster you might have the shoes on the wrong way. Remember the distance from the end of the shoe to the stud the snail contacts is slightly longer on one than the other.
    This is on LWB rears.

    Keith

  9. #19
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    I have checked the pads and I think everything is installed correctly, and when I press the pedal bleeding the system I get fluid out of each wheel piston, so I'm giving the Master Cylinder some reprieve & I think the next thing I'll test is remove the booster from the circuit & see if this fixes the problem, I still have a fairly strong right boot & think if it's the problem I don't need a booster...
    Cheers
    Jason

  10. #20
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    Have you bled the booster?

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