Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies
Sure on that?
No mention of it from the supplier: Cunifer CNF-3 - 3/16in 4.75mm OD tubing x 25 foot
I can't recall seeing it branded.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies
Sure on that?
No mention of it from the supplier: Cunifer CNF-3 - 3/16in 4.75mm OD tubing x 25 foot
I can't recall seeing it branded.
The alloy was originally and correctly called Cunifer (Cu, Ni, Fe being the main ingredients) but outside of Europe I've mostly seen brake pipes made from it sold as Kunifer. Possibly Cunifer is a registered name?
I used it extensively in the UK, but I never noticed that it was branded. Mind you that wasn't important at the time, so it may well have been!
In any case, keeping the receipt provides backup just in case the rego man is a bit touchy - mine isn't but you never know! But then I've always kept photo's of the unpainted chassis after repairs etc., so the rego man (I've mostly dealt with M.O.T. men, but they serve the same purpose) didn't start using a hammer on my newly restored vehicle to prove there was no "bog" in the chassis - I've seen 'em do it!
Geeeeeze!
I bought them on eBay ex UK.
"Classic Car Brake Pipes". classiccarspares@&yahoo.co.uk
I will contact Sam & subject him to the K(C)unifer Twenty Questions and then post his reply here for posterity.
I know I'm going to Hell for other reasons.
If I fit them, will I go to jail as well??
The stuff i bought from the local BrakePro was branded and according to ENZED (when they made up hoses for my SIIb) they can only make up brake pipes using branded hose and pipe. But no it wasn't written down.Quote:
Originally Posted by isuzurover
I'm losing sleep over copper brake pipes & brake pipe protectors.
PIPES:
Are branded thusly: 3/16x22G C106 ECT BS 287119293 1/12/2009
(That I will assume is some Britsh spec for brake pipes from 1/12/2009)
PROTECTORS:
Are these they? Bottom photo.
1960 Land Rover Restoration: Automec Brake Line Kit (Part 1)
They weren't fitted to my vehicle.
The look the goods all right! Are they a part that can be got?
They are indeed the brake pipe protectors, though somewhat shinier than most!! They clamp between the spring and the axle, locating by means of a hole through which the leaf pack center bolt passes. Their job, I've always assumed, is to protect the brake pipes from damage caused by the check straps which pass between the brake pipes (and protectors) and the axle.
Part numbers are 243038 (or NRC7315) and 243039 (NRC7314) for LH and RH. Genuine Land Rover versions from LRDirect are UKP14.40 and UKP9.90. And I have no idea why the two sides are different prices!
Edit: Obviously check these part numbers before ordering. Low caffeine levels early in the morning sometimes cause problems!
Assumption is a dangerous thing. C106 is the important part.Quote:
Originally Posted by geodon
So it looks like what you have is standard copper pipe. Definitely not Cunifer, which is only 90% copper.Quote:
Alloy C106
Copper alloy C106 is phosphorous de-oxidised non-arsenical copper that is 99.85% pure.
Personally, I would not use it.
I believe the relevant standard for brake pipes is ISO 4038.
A few relevant posts on the subject:
Edit - is seems copper pipe may be legal in the UK (but then motorised sofas are too!).Quote:
Copper brake lines in the good ol' USA are strictly illegal. Not only can vibrations work harden and subsequently crack and fail, but the simple act of applying brakes and releasing them provide a cyclic stress that does the same thing over time; say 10-20- or 30 years.
Kunifer looks like copper if not side by side with real copper. It has been tested to all known standards and found to be safe. Copper has not. Some brakeline kits are Kunifer (AKA, Cunifer, Cupro-nickle, etc) and not mentioned as such. Unless you KNOW that your brake lines are copper, don't assume that it is so. And if you have replaced your brake lines with known copper lines, just because you haven't had a problem in say, the last 10 years, don't assume you won't run into problems further down the road. It is sub-standard material for in brakelines.
Chuck Schaefer
Gary,
Copper brake lines are banned in motor sport by the Confederation of Australian Motor Sport (CAMS).
When it is stated that many cars have copper brake lines I believe it will be found that they are copper/nickel which looks like copper.
Copper/nickel does not have the problem.
Mick
M F Anderson
Interestingly Moss USA sell the copper/nickel lines, but it looks like Moss UK sell the plain copper lines..the pricing seems to reflect the difference, although I can't confirm that the Moss UK ones are plain copper.
Gary Lock
Yes, Moss UK does apparently still sell copper brake pipes (as well as other materials). I don't know where plain copper tubing may be allowed in other parts of the world, but certainly not in North America or Australia. Some while back Moss USA accidentally got come brake pipe kits from Moss UK, turned out to be plain copper after a customer complained, and the lot had to be pulled out of AU inventory (problem solved and long gone now).
Kunifer, Cunifer, Cupro-nickle (and maybe some other trade names) are Copper-nickle alloy material, and much tougher than plain copper (more resistant to work hardening and crack failure). It sort of looks like copper tubing, a bit more dull or copper-gray in color. A trained eye can spot the difference in appearance, but it may fool a novice.
Cupro-nickle brake pipes are good stuff, and I think generally well accepted around the world. The problem there is convincing some "inspector" that the things are really cupro-nickle and not plain copper. To this end some governmental agencies and maybe some race sanctioning groups might ban cupro-nickle pipes simply because they cannot tell the difference by visual inspection. But I would otherwise be happy to use cupro-nickle brake pipes on any car I drive.
There are, as always, many relevant standards:Quote:
Originally Posted by isuzurover
"The copper-nickel alloy used for brake tubing typically contains 10% nickel, with iron and manganese additions of 1.4% and 0.8% respectively. The product conforms to ASTM B466 (American Society for Testing and Materials), which specifies dimensions, tensile strength and yield strength. Formability and internal cleanliness conform to specifications SAE J527, ASTM A254 and SMMT C5B (Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders). Also, the alloy meets the requirements for pressure containment, fabrication and corrosion resistance for ISO 4038 (International Standards Organization) and SAE J1047."
"SAE J1047 or equivalent" is the stated requirement in NSW. ISO 4038 is equivalent.....
The problem is that without a great deal of reading nobody knows what the standards actually say. For example, a Cunifer brake pipe on eBay claims to "conform to BS EN 12449" and be "pressure tested to SAE 1047". But SAE 1047 also includes other criteria like corrosion resistance, and "pressure tested to" could be taken to mean that it hasn't been tested for the other criteria. But then, perhaps those criteria are included in BS EN 12449, or perhaps the has been fully tested but the seller is concentrating on what he or she thinks is the main issue?
The bottom line is that anybody can make a pipe, and anybody can stamp it, or claim it has been tested to any standard they choose.
However:
This particular seller (classiccarspares@&yahoo.co.uk) lists "copper" brake pipe sets, and states in the current ad's that "ON REQUEST A FULL SET MADE FROM KUNIFER CAN BE MADE UP INSTEAD. THE COST FOR A KUNIFER SET WILL BE A BIT DEARER SO PLEASE CONTACT ME FOR DETAILS"
Sorry to say that this probably means that if Cunifer wasn't specifically requested or stated, the pipes are indeed pure copper and illegal in Australia.
YES!
"Houston, we have a problem!"
Thanks to all! You saved me some serious grief.
If I had presented at the local Vicroads with these pipes it would have been gonged!
I have contacted Sam and am waiting for a reply.
Well Sam of classiccarspares.co.uk is most certainly no Arthur Daly ("Son, my word is my bond!")
For 29 quid, I get a new set of cupro-nickel pipes shipped to my door. I HIGHLY recommend doing business with this chappie.
He's NOW aware of the legal situation & will not ship Cu pipes to Australia or the USA, so this discourse has been most valuable.
I now have a set of Cu pipes for a 2A for sale. 3/16 is a bit narrow for fuel lines. Is anyone using a non-registered 2A to launch boats into the sea for for hunting in mangrove swamps?