NSW & Vic Petrol

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Originally Posted by numpty

Some ULP (91) is labelled as having 10% ethanol (eg Caltex) whereas 91 ULP sold at most servos is not.

Does this mean it contains ethanol anyway? Seems daft to me if there is no standard. I filled my S1 with 95 at a Caltex outlet recently so as not to put ethanol in it.

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I don't believe it has ethanol in it anyway.
The issue was that ethanol can cause damage in older fuel systems and AFAIK if the fuel contains any ethanol it has to be displayed as such ie E10 is ULP with 10% ethanol added. 91, 95 and 98 are straight ULP.

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Originally Posted by Phil B

I read the question to be about the effects of ethanol on fuel systems not ULP on valve seats.
AFAIK ethanol can affect certain rubber and plastic parts in fuel systems causing degradation and possible failure of seals, diaphrams etc.
If you google E10 vehicle suitablility LR series vehicles are definitely not suitable for E10.
I do know that ULP without ethanol is still available in NSW after they tried changing to all E10 in 2013(?) and reverted back to straight ULP and an option of E10 after a public outcry.
Not sure about SA but things like chain saws, older mowers etc definitely don't like ethanol so I would imagine that staight ULP is still availabvle there as well.
Regards,

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The major problem with ethanol in fuel, especially for engines such as mowers, chainsaws etc that spend long periods unused, is that ethanol allows water to mix with the fuel, as water is soluble in ethanol (but not petrol). The result of this is to promote corrosion in every part of the fuel system where fuel is left in place for long periods. Worse, of course, on the coast where humidity is usually high, not much of a problem in most inland locations. Not supposed to be a problem with <10%, but I am not sure I believe that.

The damage to rubber components is, as far as I can see, overrated - cars such as Series Landrovers, or more correctly their fuel system parts, simply have not had the ethanol sensitivity of their components tested. This does not mean they will be damaged, just that it is unknown whether they will be or not.

In reality, it is likely that of the variety of different parts produced by or for companies such as Zenith, Solex, AC and SU, and the aftermarket replacements, since testing for ethanol compatibility is not part of the specification, it is likely that some will be susceptible to damage, and some not. What proportion falls into each category is unknown.

John

It looks like all 91 Unleaded in NSW at Shell/Coles at least is 10% ethanol.

Coles Express | Shell Fuel | Unleaded

We might have to go 95 but any fuel bought in NSW will be used within the day.

But then there's this from the RACV site linked earlier saying the carbs in particular are not compatible:

Should I run my classic car on an ethanol blended fuel?
No, vehicles built before 1986 are not considered compatible with ethanol blended fuels
i
. Also
vehicles fitted with a carburettor are not compatible with Ethanol blended fuels
ii
. Fuel injected
vehicles that have not been indicated as compatible
with ethanol blends should also avoid ethanol
blends
iii

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cannon

.......
But then there's this from the RACV site linked earlier saying the carbs in particular are not compatible:

Should I run my classic car on an ethanol blended fuel?
No, vehicles built before 1986 are not considered compatible with ethanol blended fuels
i
. Also
vehicles fitted with a carburettor are not compatible with Ethanol blended fuels
ii
. Fuel injected
vehicles that have not been indicated as compatible
with ethanol blends should also avoid ethanol
blends
iii

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I think that this site is taking the position that vehicles built after 1986 are designed to ensure ethanol compatibility, and assuming that ones after that others are not rather than the real situation - it is unknown whether or not they are. And no manufacturer is ever going to guarantee that something they built years ago is compatible.

John

John

ULP with ethanol dissolves fibreglass fuel tanks. I learnt this from bitter experience.

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Originally Posted by Geedublya

ULP with ethanol dissolves fibreglass fuel tanks. I learnt this from bitter experience.

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Yep, well documented on boat sites.

Maybe it takes several decades for some of these ethanol related problems to develop. :)

I have regularly run quite old vehicles, lawnmowers and chainsaws on E10 ever since it became available. None of those pieces of equipment has ever had any fuel related problem.

I can understand why someone who needs to cross the bar at Narooma or similar places would want to avoid ethanol completely. I am aware of the reasons why ethanol can be a problem for outboards.

However, I think that to assume that one tank full of E10 is going to have disastrous consequences in any Series Land Rover is quite unrealistic.

I think there is a lot of scaremongering associated with the use of E10.

At the end of the day if you choose to ignore warnings from the producers of the fuel, (Shell in particular stated on their E10 pumps that E10 was not suitable for certain engines ,including lawn mowers, chainsaws ands outboards) and advise from car manufacturers and drivers organisations that is entirely your decision.
Seems strange though that the government backflipped on mandating the exclusive use of 91 E10 and reintroduced 91 ULP immediately in 2013 from memory.
I know which fuel I will choose for my S3 until it eventually becomes unavailable, if it does.

I choose to interpret those warnings in the manner that JDNSW suggests they should be interpreted. Those organisations don't dare recommend something that has even the remotest possibility of coming back to bite them.

Are you assuming that a government decision was based on sound science? Most of their other decisions are based on what the polls tell them is the best vote winner. :)

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Originally Posted by vnx205

Maybe it takes several decades for some of these ethanol related problems to develop. :)

I have regularly run quite old vehicles, lawnmowers and chainsaws on E10 ever since it became available. None of those pieces of equipment has ever had any fuel related problem.

I can understand why someone who needs to cross the bar at Narooma or similar places would want to avoid ethanol completely. I am aware of the reasons why ethanol can be a problem for outboards.

However, I think that to assume that one tank full of E10 is going to have disastrous consequences in any Series Land Rover is quite unrealistic.

I think there is a lot of scaremongering associated with the use of E10.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by vnx205

I choose to interpret those warnings in the manner that JDNSW suggests they should be interpreted. Those organisations don't dare recommend something that has even the remotest possibility of coming back to bite them.

Are you assuming that a government decision was based on sound science? Most of their other decisions are based on what the polls tell them is the best vote winner. :)

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And as such I will continue to NOT use Ethanol blended fuels in my older engines.

This includes my 2003 Mazda 323 as it is not recommended.

If nothing else is available, I might think differently, although when I take the S1 anywhere covering more than 300 k's, I usually have a jerry can of fuel with me too.