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Thread: Brake Wheel Cylinders Different Brands and Fit

  1. #1
    Lionelgee is offline YarnMaster Silver Subscriber
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    Brake Wheel Cylinders Different Brands and Fit

    Hello All,

    Has anyone come across there being two different types of front brake wheel cylinders on the market? One type has threaded studs integrated into the mounting face. The other type has an internal thread cut into the cylinder's mounting face. To secure it a bolt goes through the backing plate.

    Using the part numbers I ordered a complete set of wheel cylinders and they came with the internal thread. All the ones I took off the Land Rover I am working on and one of my spares Land Rovers had the studs which are secured to the backing plate via a nut and washer.

    The threaded stud type wheel cylinders literally fall into place and fit to the backing plate with hardly any effort.

    There is no way on God's green earth that the ones with an internal thread and a bolt that goes through the backing plate aligns with the holes in the wheel cylinder.

    Luckily one of four old wheel cylinders actually had manufacturer's details and a code on it: Girling DI 303450. When I went online to check Series 2A Girling wheel brake cylinders there were numerous no-name brands and they all had the threaded studs. Apparently, the only one that manufacturer starts with "Brit" has the internal thread that needs bolts to secure it.

    The kit did not come with any bolts - so I went under a couple of my Series 3 109s and they had bolts fitting their brake wheel cylinders

    Have I been sent a set of Series 3 wheel cylinders instead of the Series 2A that I supplied the parts numbers for? Or has the famous Brit manufacture akin to Murphy visited me and the difference between fitted studs and internal threads bitten me?

    Has anyone else come across this issue between fitment and integrated studs and internal threads before? What did you do to get them to fit?

    At the moment it looks like I am going to be returning the parts and buying a different brand. This brings the task of fixing the brakes to a grinding halt - not happy Jan!

    Kind Regards
    Lionel
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  2. #2
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    Your cast iron replacements look like the cylinders from a LWB 6-cylinder front with the wider shoes.

    4-cyl are 243743 and 243744 or GI 390360W and GI 390361W
    6-cyl are600200 and 600201 or GI 64674107 and GI 64674108

    Colin
    Last edited by gromit; 3rd June 2018 at 01:09 PM.
    '56 Series 1 with homemade welder
    '65 Series IIa Dormobile
    '70 SIIa GS
    '76 SIII 88" (Isuzu C240)
    '81 SIII FFR
    '95 Defender Tanami
    '58 Series II (sold)
    Motorcycles :-
    Vincent Rapide, Panther M100, Norton BIG4, Electra & Navigator, Matchless G80C

  3. #3
    Lionelgee is offline YarnMaster Silver Subscriber
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    Your cast iron replacements look like the cylinders from a LWB 6-cylinder front with the wider shoes.

    4-cyl are 243743 and 243744 or GI 390360W and GI 390361W
    6-cyl are600200 and 600201 or GI 64674107 and GI 64674108

    Colin
    Hello Colin,

    Thanks for the identification. Oh Joy the wrong part for the shortie. It is not all of a loss though - I needed to replace the wheel cylinders on one of my 109 Series 3. Still it would have been nice if I could work on the vehicle I wanted to now.

    I found some TRW OEM 243743 and 243744.

    What would the rear cylinders part numbers be for a 4 cylinder 88 inch wheel base 2A made in October 1970?
    Part Number: 243303 (Left)
    Part Number: 243302 (Right)

    Kind Regards
    Lionel

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lionelgee View Post

    What would the rear cylinders part numbers be for a 4 cylinder 88 inch wheel base 2A made in October 1970?
    Part Number: 243303 (Left)
    Part Number: 243302 (Right)
    Lionel

    Those numbers are correct for 10" brakes, I'm not sure about the year but I wouldn't think they changed for Series I, II or III.


    Colin
    '56 Series 1 with homemade welder
    '65 Series IIa Dormobile
    '70 SIIa GS
    '76 SIII 88" (Isuzu C240)
    '81 SIII FFR
    '95 Defender Tanami
    '58 Series II (sold)
    Motorcycles :-
    Vincent Rapide, Panther M100, Norton BIG4, Electra & Navigator, Matchless G80C

  5. #5
    Lionelgee is offline YarnMaster Silver Subscriber
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    Lionel

    Those numbers are correct for 10" brakes, I'm not sure about the year but I wouldn't think they changed for Series I, II or III.


    Colin
    Hello Colin,

    I just ducked outside in the dark with a ruler and the internal diameter of the front brake shoe is 11 inches. This is the distance in between the operating face of where the brake shoes make contact with the inside of the drum. The old shoe is approximately 2 1/2 inches wide. Approximate measurements due to poor lighting.

    The spare backing plate I used to replace the mangled plate that was fitted to the shortie is sourced from a Series 3 four cylinder diesel powered donor. The front brake wheel cylinders that came off the shortie also fits like a glove on the Series 3. The Series 3 also had an exact match of the shortie's brake wheel cylinders.

    Maybe the 1970 2A had a brake upgrade? I found another suppler who quotes that 243743 - as Wheel Cylinder, 109" 4-cylinder. Instead of having the 88 inch wheel base brakes on the front it has been upgraded to the 109's four cylinder motor's brakes. Accessed June 5, 2018 from, 243743 - Wheel Cylinder, 109" 4-cylinder, Front Left Hand side

    It is the same part number that you quoted Colin and other web-based parts sites identify as 243743.

    Kind Regards
    Lionel

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    Lionelgee is offline YarnMaster Silver Subscriber
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    Hello All,

    There was a parcel from a courier company waiting for me when I got home from work today. It was a full set of TRW OEM brake wheel cylinders for the 2A Four cylinder Long Wheel base which my 2A shortie was set up with by the previous owners.

    If it does not rain on Saturday I may have all the four wheels back on the ground and be able to press on the brake pedal and .... stop!

    With the high speed Range Rover differential centres the shortie did moves itself along the ground at a rapid pace even in first gear! Being able to stop when I want to will be nice.

    Then there are the lights to sort out; and then ..........

    Kind regards
    Lionel
    Last edited by p38arover; 4th June 2020 at 02:51 PM.

  7. #7
    Lionelgee is offline YarnMaster Silver Subscriber
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    Something to Remember when fitting brake pipes

    Hello All,

    I made the mistake of fixing the brake wheel cylinders to the backing plate and then attempted to fit the intermediate pipe between the front top wheel cylinder and the bottom one. After a number of attempts I backtracked. I started the thread on the top wheel cylinder hex nut and then completely loosened off the bottom wheel cylinder. With the wheel cylinder loose both the wheel cylinder and the pipe could be manoeuvred and the hex nut screwed in very easily. The last thing to fit is the bleed screw; otherwise it blocks tightening the front nut on the bottom brake wheel cylinder.

    Now fitting the second side of the front will be so much quicker!

    What do people use to loosen and tighten the front bolt on the bottom brake wheel cylinder? I used a 1/2 inch open-ended spanner. The casting of around the bleed screw base prevents a ring spanner fitting. I wonder whether this is a site to use a crows-foot spanner. With the backing plate the open-ended spanner fits diagonally across the nut instead of being parallel or flat on to it. Even 1/4 inch drive thin wall sockets do not have clearance in this area.

    Kind regards
    Lionel

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    Lionel, it's easier to fit the wheel cylinders and the connecting pipe with the back plate off the vehicle. Is yours still on the vehicle ?

    Also, when I reinstalled my back plates with wheel cylinders and connecting pipe already fitted, I found the bottom of the connecting pipe was touching the steering arm on both sides, so I had to "adjust" the connecting pipes.

    Cheers,
    John

  9. #9
    Lionelgee is offline YarnMaster Silver Subscriber
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnboyLandy View Post
    Lionel, it's easier to fit the wheel cylinders and the connecting pipe with the back plate off the vehicle. Is yours still on the vehicle ?

    Also, when I reinstalled my back plates with wheel cylinders and connecting pipe already fitted, I found the bottom of the connecting pipe was touching the steering arm on both sides, so I had to "adjust" the connecting pipes.

    Cheers,
    John
    Hello Johnboy-Landy

    Thank you for your reply John and for the hint. I thought the backing plates would have to be fitted to attach the wheel cylinders and the inlet pipe. Well there you go!

    I did take one backing plate off because it was totally munted. The vehicle must of been on an axle stand without the wheels on, fell over and landed down on to just the backing plate. I cannot think of any other way than that scenario which could have caused so much distortion to the backing plate. It had more in common with a Smith's - "Thins" crisp in shape than a backing plate does. Only one corner of the vehicle had a damaged backing plate!

    This meant taking the hub off. I now have to readjust the hub because I left too much play in it when I refitted it. The need for a readjustment became very obvious to me once the wheel was back on and I wiggled the tyre.

    The next challenge is to learn how to read a dial gauge and adjust the end float on the hub to somewhere in between 0.05 to 0.10 of a millimeter.

    Kind regards
    Lionel

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lionelgee View Post
    Hello Johnboy-Landy

    Thank you for your reply John and for the hint. I thought the backing plates would have to be fitted to attach the wheel cylinders and the inlet pipe. Well there you go!

    I did take one backing plate off because it was totally munted. The vehicle must of been on an axle stand without the wheels on, fell over and landed down on to just the backing plate. I cannot think of any other way than that scenario which could have caused so much distortion to the backing plate. It had more in common with a Smith's - "Thins" crisp in shape than a backing plate does. Only one corner of the vehicle had a damaged backing plate!

    This meant taking the hub off. I now have to readjust the hub because I left too much play in it when I refitted it. The need for a readjustment became very obvious to me once the wheel was back on and I wiggled the tyre.

    The next challenge is to learn how to read a dial gauge and adjust the end float on the hub to somewhere in between 0.05 to 0.10 of a millimeter.

    Kind regards
    Lionel
    At least you have a dial gauge, I didn't so I just guessed it Brake Wheel Cylinders Different Brands and Fit

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