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Thread: Marmalade the IIa

  1. #1
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    Marmalade the IIa

    After months of searching, I am now the proud owner of a little 2a, SWB Diesel, which, in the interest of this post, shall be temporarily named 'Marmalade'.
    IMG-3643.jpg

    after a road trip of somewhat epic proportions, she arrived in our shed; and we began the strip down.
    IMG-3649.jpgIMG-3663.jpgIMG-3665.jpgIMG-3667.jpgIMG-3672.jpg
    during the strip down, it became clear that we got a few different vehicles in one! The chassis number matches the number on the ID plate, but the rear dif is from a late 60's 2a, and the diesel engine is from a series 3 (the car was originally a diesel). As we are yet to get to the front dif, we my discover that it is also different

    equipped with a mammoth PTO winch, possibly a weird number of leaves in the springs (12 rear, 9 front), she's an interesting little car.

    More photos will follow as this little adventure continues

  2. #2
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    Interestingly, at some point, someone (or something) has decided that the standard number of holes in the bell housing was not enough; hence, this:
    IMG-3674.jpg

    At this point, the 'to do' list is mainly Brakes (complete overhaul), steering and electronics (again, complete overhaul). The chassis is more or less perfect; with only one small rust patch in the rear gearbox cross member. From the quick drive Dad and I did in it around the paddocks, the gearbox feels fine.
    The engine runs reasonably, yet is very smoky on idle and when cold. The guy we got it from reckons that was because the muffler is full of oil (original diesel engine carked it), how feasible is this? Or, is it more likely that the engine is burning oil (seal or something?), I did notice a fair bit of oil collected around the cover plate at the fuel pump (dunno what it's called, I'll try to get a photo tomorrow), And I'm unsure if there should be oil in behind said cover plate.

    Whilst I'm asking questions, I might as well ask a few more:
    For the brake lines, would it be worthwhile cutting and flaring my own, or should I just spend the $ and buy a ready cut, copper alloy 'plug and play' set? (as recommended in the restoration manual)

    The PTO drive shaft seems to be impacting the gearbox cross member in a way that seems pretty unhealthy:
    IMG-3691.jpgIMG-3692.jpgIMG-3694.jpg
    Not sure if there is a way to rectify this issue, or if it's even an issue at all (although, I can't see house it would be good for the drive shaft in any way). Dad pointed out that the winch may have been mounted to the rear; hence the 12 rear leaf springs

    And finally; for the electronics, if I were to make my own loom (still unsure, might end up just paying for a new one), what would be the best way to go about doing so? mark out a 1:1 scale board with all the components, the form wire around that?

    Luca

  3. #3
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    Looks like a very typical Series Landrover in a lot of ways - has taken advantage of the interchangeability of parts (speaking from a 2a with a lot of S3 parts).

    I have never seen a winch fitted like that - my feeling would be to simply remove it unless you need to use it or are just keeping it as a talking point. There does not look to be an easy solution to the interference between the shaft and the bell housing, and the weight right up front is not going to help the ride or steering.

    Brake lines - there is no clearcut answer - depends on your skills versus finances! And I don't know either of these.

    Smoke - what colour is it? If it is blueish it is oil, which possibly will be from the exhaust system - but this would only appear after the exhaust heats up. If it is coming from the engine, there is a slight possibility it is from valve stems seals, but this is unlikely in a diesel, more likely from piston rings or glazed cylinder walls.

    If black, it is from poor combustion, and while a little of this is expected from this engine (it is a 1950s design) it should not be noticeable except at full throttle. If it is the first suspect would be injectors, incorrect timing, injection pump, or possibly low compression on one cylinder, although this should show up as a rough idle.

    Oil on the side plate - I assume this is near the lift pump. Usually means the lift pump itself is leaking oil, but could be a gasket (including rocker cover) or simply oil spilled while topping up the sump. It will not be related to the smoke.

    Electronics???? No electronics on a 2a. I assume you mean electrics. Pretty much as you suggest - remove the old one and use this to mark out a board for sizes. Both for this and a bought one, think carefully about what you want to have in your wiring. The 2a did not have an alternator, so this will change the wiring. Extras that were not there originally that you probably want to think about before you even plan the wiring include:- headlight relays; hazard lights; reversing lights; multispeed wipers; windscreen washer; trailer wiring; driving lights; power outlets; and probably others.

    All the best, and keep the posts up! Looks like you have a good'un.
    John

    JDNSW
    1986 110 County 3.9 diesel
    1970 2a 109 2.25 petrol

  4. #4
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    Great project and I can sympathise with finding a variety of parts, my own IIA has been an eye opener in that regard.

    My own (current and ongoing) experience with these things is as follows:

    Brake lines - I have made my own. Upside to this is I run them where I want, only downside is you need a flaring tool. Making the lines themselves is very easy and the premade kits still require you to bend all the lines into place, which really is the only difficult part anyway. The brake unions are all standard sizes and except for the 'female' ones that terminate at the flexible hoses are available over the counter in brake shops. I've just hunted up the female ones from 'Classic Mini' parts suppliers - land rover places don't seem to carry these parts and favour the pre-made kits, which I assume is an issue of margin on sales. If your unions are in good shape (not rounded off, which would be amazing) then you might be able to recycle them but having tested this I think new ones are a better plan.

    Wiring - I would strongly recommend a pre-made loom. Nothing inherently wrong with doing it yourself, but unless you buy wires of the same colour as the original and run them all as per the manual, you'll have a difficult time of troubleshooting in the future - and if not you, the next person will. I'm currently the "next person" for someone who made their own loom, and I have ripped it all out to be replaced with one from Vintage Wiring Harnesses (in Melbourne). Another consideration is that big bundles of wires wrapped in electrical tape look terrible, the cloth covered looms look fantastic.

    Have fun!

    Cheers,

    Adam

  5. #5
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    Hi

    Good luck

    Feed back from my build

    Brake lines, I bought a steel set, but the lengths were all over the place. So bought stuff and made my own, which was very hit and Miss until I found a proper lever operated flare tool. After that it was easy but unless you find a cheap pro tool, they cost the same as an off the shelf brake line set

    Wiring loom, can’t go past one of Bruce Sharma’s in fitting one now and it’s excellent, all original cable and colours. Lengths are spot on. He has a 3 month wait list and they are a couple of hundred more than a cheap one but I wouldn’t hesitate to get another.

    From my experience, avoid britpart for high tolerance parts (seals, bearings, etc) fine for other stuff.

  6. #6
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    Hi, thanks heaps for the comments.

    Yes, sorry I did mean electrics, pretty tired whilst making the post last night
    Likely the winch will be removed, restored, sold and then the funds from that shall help towards an O/drive... but we'll see, it's a pretty interesting bit of machinery, so could be nice to keep it for interests sake

    Thanks for the comment re. britpart, I'll keep that in mind.
    whilst we're on the topic of spare parts, what would likely be the best brake shoe and cylinder kit? as I've noticed a fairly large discrepancy in prices from different suppliers, and that is one aspect of the car that I consider the quality of to be somewhat essential......

    I really know nothing about electrical work, and making my own loom would be more for the experience and knowledge rather than cost saving. So, if I end up going ahead with that is it possible to cloth wrap the wiring, or do you need a special tool for it?
    Alternatively, I could shrink wrap it all.

    Luca

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ypsilophora View Post

    Thanks for the comment re. britpart, I'll keep that in mind.
    whilst we're on the topic of spare parts, what would likely be the best brake shoe and cylinder kit? as I've noticed a fairly large discrepancy in prices from different suppliers, and that is one aspect of the car that I consider the quality of to be somewhat essential......

    I really know nothing about electrical work, and making my own loom would be more for the experience and knowledge rather than cost saving. So, if I end up going ahead with that is it possible to cloth wrap the wiring, or do you need a special tool for it?
    Alternatively, I could shrink wrap it all.
    Cloth wrapping a harness requires a very expensive machine, shrink wrapping won't work as it will end up rigid and you need it to flex.

    There is insulation tape available for wiring harnesses that has no glue. Once spiral wrapped it allows the harness to be bent, you just need a wrap of normal tape at the end to stop it unravelling.
    By the time you have paid for spools of each of the wire colours it will be up to the cost of a new harness. I have looked into it and have stayed with original harnesses on all of mine so far.

    Most of the aftermarket parts are outsourced by **itpart, Bearmach etc. and typically come from India. Buy it local and pay more or order from overseas and make a saving on the same parts.
    Rubber parts decompose within a few years.
    Wheel bearing from a known manufacturer about $350 per set, Indian about $50 including a dodgy seal, lock washer etc. I haven't had any problems with the cheap wheel bearings but if the originals are OK I re-use them.
    Best to get seals from a bearing supplier locally, take in the old ones as a sample.

    Brake lines, I've always made my own. As others have commented the pre-made ones are either too long or too short.
    Paddocks in the UK have the flare nuts & tube nuts reasonably priced. Flexible hoses are much cheaper from the UK.

    Brake linings - use a known brand, steer clear of **itpart.
    Brake cylinders can be OK from **itpart/Bearmach but there are some known brands where the quality is better. A local brake company will be able to get the parts but could be expensive so check price before ordering.

    Best of luck,

    Colin
    '56 Series 1 with homemade welder
    '65 Series IIa Dormobile
    '70 SIIa GS
    '76 SIII 88" (Isuzu C240)
    '81 SIII FFR
    '95 Defender Tanami
    '58 Series II (sold)
    Motorcycles :-
    Vincent Rapide, Panther M100, Norton BIG4, Electra & Navigator, Matchless G80C

  8. #8
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    Thanks again for the replies!

    took off one of the wheels to have a look at the brakes, the bearings had had it, and at some point someone had (instead of doing the sensible thing, and replacing the bearings), just applied liberal amounts of silicone to just about every place oil could leak from
    Due to this, the brake drum had become somewhat... greasy
    IMG-3703.jpg
    One of the pads had also seized, so was almost completely un-worn... I suspect they'll need replacing
    The wheel cylinders appear to be the original cast iron type girling ones, I'd be keen to rebuild them, as it seems a shame to chuck a 50yr old piece of cast iron machinery... Has anyone had any experience with the wheel cylinder rebuild kits?
    Another question regarding the electrics: Gromit, you said you reuse the original loom, I was under the impression that the wiring increased in resistance with age, you haven't had any issues?


    20201203_093101.jpg
    a bit of a clearer picture of her; Dad and I just making sure she wasn't about to fall of the trailer on the drive home!
    another thing, the door tops we have are missing one of the bolts each, is it possible to fabricate these bolts back on?

    Luca

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ypsilophora View Post

    Another question regarding the electrics: Gromit, you said you reuse the original loom, I was under the impression that the wiring increased in resistance with age, you haven't had any issues?

    I've never heard that one before, I did need to clean all the bullet connectors on my Series I as they weren't making good contact.

    Grease in the brakes doesn't mean the bearings have failed, could be just the hub seal and the seal in the end of the axle. You might find the bearings are OK.

    Re-sealing the wheel cylinders will depend on the condition of the piston & bore. If rust pitted a seal kit isn't going to fix them.
    Original pistons were hard chromed, you might be lucky and the bore is OK and only needs a light hone. I've re-sealed them with success in the past.


    Colin
    '56 Series 1 with homemade welder
    '65 Series IIa Dormobile
    '70 SIIa GS
    '76 SIII 88" (Isuzu C240)
    '81 SIII FFR
    '95 Defender Tanami
    '58 Series II (sold)
    Motorcycles :-
    Vincent Rapide, Panther M100, Norton BIG4, Electra & Navigator, Matchless G80C

  10. #10
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    I've just rebuilt my front wheel cylinders, but I only did it because they were new about 10yrs ago and had just been sitting for the last 6yrs, so the bores were in good condition. The kits I got from British Auto Parts were good quality. I've done hundreds of wheel cylinder and master cylinder kits over the years I worked as a mechanic and results vary - these days I would say if you need it to work first time and last the long haul you should put a new cylinder in, if you're willing to risk a few bucks and the time then give the kit a go but be prepared for it to leak either straight away or within a short time.

    A common practice in my time in the trade was to sleeve the cylinder if the bores were too pitted on cars where the parts were harder to find (my boss was a Ford Prefect nut so we sleeved a lot of cylinders), but I heard recently that's no longer considered worthwhile unless the parts are completely unobtainable. Landy wheel cylinders are pretty cheap and in stock in most of the usual places.

    In terms of the state of the brake area in general, I'd say the distance piece the wheel bearing seal runs on is rusted and/or scored and will need to be replaced. It's an easy job but appears daunting at first because you're smashing something off with a chisel and heating up the new part to shrink fit. You definitely want to remove the stub axle and put it in a vice to make removing the old one easy, then lay the flange on the bench with the stub axle vertical to install the new one. This makes it a job of about 5min per axle. The other issue that leads to the brakes getting covered in oil is not regularly replacing the felt seal on the end of the axle - buy a handful of spares and replace them any time you remove the locknut to adjust bearings or whatever.

    Cheers,

    Adam

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