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Thread: Clutch slipping, what does it mean ?

  1. #1
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    Clutch slipping, what does it mean ?

    The clutch on my 1971 s2a 4cyl 109 has started slipping on hill starts, does that mean it's needs adjusting or repairing ?

    If it needs repairing, how do I tell what parts are needed before the clutch is removed ?

    Any suggestions welcome.

    Thanks
    John

  2. #2
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    Being a hydraulic clutch it is probably up for replacement rather than adjustment. A clutch kit will normally have a clutch plate, a pressure plate and a throw out bearing.
    Cheers
    Slunnie


    ~ Discovery II Td5 ~ Discovery 3dr V8 ~ Series IIa 6cyl ute ~ Series II V8 ute ~

  3. #3
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    While there is a slight chance of it being something that can be adjusted, if it has not been fiddled with (particularly the clutch master cylinder pushrod and pedal position), there are two possible causes apart from this. This clutch is self-adjusting via the hydraulics

    1. Clutch plate is worn. Simply due to age and use (or misuse). Using the clutch pedal as a footrest will wear the clutch plate.

    2. Clutch plate has oil on it. This can come from the gearbox, usually a result of overfilling, or from the engine, usually a result of failure of the rear crankshaft seal or excess crankcase pressure due to blocked crankcase ventilation. In either case, the oil usually does not get onto the clutch unless the flywheel housing drain is blocked.

    Regardless, the engine/gearbox will need to be separated, meaning that one or the other must be removed, although it is (just) possible to move the gearbox back enough to replace the clutch without actually removing the box. Since the crossmember under the box is not removable, removing the box means removing a cab/hardtop, seatbox and floor. Depending on available equipment and the body, removing the engine may be easier.

    Note that there are two different clutches fitted - 9" and 91/2". These can be interchanged complete, but the driven plate and pressure plate (also called clutch cover) are not interchangeable, and you also need a spacer on the slave cylinder. The only way to tell which you have is have a look - if you remove the gearlever and its mount you can see which is fitted. Note that the clutches are not the same as Series 3, although the 91/2" driven plate is the same as the Series 3.

    It is generally considered that you should replace the driven plate, pressure plate, and pilot bush in the flywheel. This is based on the labour cost of removing the engine or gearbox. It is possible that the flywheel may need machining, but if it has not been abused, in my experience this is unlikely. Similarly, in my experience replacing the pressure plate is also usually a bit of overkill.

    The throwout bearing on Series 1,2,and most 2a* is inside the gearbox and will not need replacing, and will not be included in a "clutch kit".

    If the crankshaft seal is leaking, this is not an easy fix - one of the worst jobs on the car!

    *Home market very late model 2a station wagons had an all synchro gearbox that is not the same as the Series 3 box,but is similar layout. There are very few if any of these in Australia.
    John

    JDNSW
    1986 110 County 3.9 diesel
    1970 2a 109 2.25 petrol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slunnie View Post
    Being a hydraulic clutch it is probably up for replacement rather than adjustment. A clutch kit will normally have a clutch plate, a pressure plate and a throw out bearing.
    Just to add to this you won't know what condition the flywheel is in until it is dismantled . If it has been slipping it could have burn marks or cracks in the clutch surface & may require machining .

  5. #5
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    Thanks for the responses guys.

    John, when you say remove the gear lever and mount to see if I have a 9 or 9.5 inch clutch, how do I tell, is there some marking I am looking for ?

    Thanks
    John

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    The 9" clutch has the traditional pressure plate with coil springs and three levers. The 91/2" pressure plate has a diaphragm spring, with a large number of small levers, over which is a steel circle that is held by three spring arms.

    If you remove the gear lever support frame, you will find that the front two bolts also hold a cover over a semicircular hole in the bell housing. Through this hole, it is easy to distinguish the two sorts of pressure plate.

    clutch differences.jpg
    John

    JDNSW
    1986 110 County 3.9 diesel
    1970 2a 109 2.25 petrol

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    make sure the clutch hydraulics are working correctly first. If the slave cylinder isn't fully retracting it will cause the clutch to slip

    the 2a has a cross shaft that gets wear in the pin and may jam to stop the clutch releasing properly

    The clutch master needs to be adjusted to ensure there is free play in the rod

    Ian
    Bittern

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    A bit of an update, I took it for a drive on the weekend and it seem to go fine. Admittedly I didn't do any steep hill starts, but it didn't feel like it was slipping at all.

    I think I'll leave it until the weather is a bit warmer (in Tassie) before I consider a replacement anyway. I might even do a removable cross-member conversion first to make life easier !!

    Thanks for all the advice - much appreciated.

    Cheers,
    John

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