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Thread: Steering relay! IIA

  1. #1
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    Steering relay! IIA

    Hi Guys,

    I'm working through bits on 'Vera' my 1964 Series IIA 88" and the steering has always been typically heavy, so I've rebuilt both swivels ( they were leaking anyway) and the steering still seems very heavy. So I thought I would isolate the steering relay to see how that felt. I popped off the ball joints on top and lower arms, and then had a feel.

    Blimey - two hands hanging off the bottom arm would just about move it, really really stiff !
    So I removed a bolt at the top of the relay and drain bolt at bottom to see what the oil looked like, and a small amount of water came out first then very dirty rusty looking oil ! I tried flushing it through and refilling but no improvement. So I thought it needs a rebuild really or replacement.
    It is seized solid in chassis even after loads of plus gas (penetrating fluid). So I dismantled in situ and if you go careful it's not too bad, the spring and parts was captured in heavy material.

    I was lucky enough to get hold of the Spring compression tool a while ago ready for this job so hopefully rebuild should go okay. Trouble is its still stuck in the chassis. So I looked at all the other posts and there isn't an easy answer to removal, so I through I'd try a different tact.

    After removing the plate (217694) at the bottom, I could see the body of the relay and chassis aperture. What I couldn't see as any of the plus gas reaching the bottom of the relay from the top. So I thought how big is the gap between the relay body (knowing it's the bottom portion that ends to seize in) and chassis and can I get anything between the two. An old hacksaw blade ground down slightly to reduce its thickness fits. So I've been working the hacksaw blade up from the bottom and to start with it went in a few thou but with perseverance I have now managed to work the blade right up the side of the relay body to the top. This released a pool of penetrating fluid stuck at the top. My aim is to continue this and eventually work the blade right around the relay or as far as poss and see if this releases the frozen relay body. It worth a go and I'll let you know how it goes, but thought it's a different attack method without major tools required, if it works of course!

    Cheers

    JRT

    image.jpgimage.jpg
    Last edited by JRT; 19th January 2022 at 09:17 PM. Reason: Typo

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRT View Post
    Hi Guys,

    I'm working through bits on 'Vera' my 1964 Series IIA 88" and the steering has always been typically heavy, so I've rebuilt both swivels ( they were leaking anyway) and the steering still seems very heavy. So I thought I would isolate the steering relay to see how that felt. I popped off the ball joints on top and lower arms, and then had a feel.

    Blimey - two hands hanging off the bottom arm would just about move it, really really stiff !
    So I removed a bolt at the top of the relay and drain bolt at bottom to see what the oil looked like, and a small amount of water came out first then very dirty rusty looking oil ! I tried flushing it through and refilling but no improvement. So I thought it needs a rebuild really or replacement.
    It is seized solid in chassis even after loads of plus gas (penetrating fluid). So I dismantled in situ and if you go careful it's not too bad, the spring and parts was captured in heavy material.

    I was lucky enough to get hold of the Spring compression tool a while ago ready for this job so hopefully rebuild should go okay. Trouble is its still stuck in the chassis. So I looked at all the other posts and there isn't an easy answer to removal, so I through I'd try a different tact.

    After removing the plate (217694) at the bottom, I could see the body of the relay and chassis aperture. What I couldn't see as any of the plus gas reaching the bottom of the relay from the top. So I thought how big is the gap between the relay body (knowing it's the bottom portion that ends to seize in) and chassis and can I get anything between the two. An old hacksaw blade ground down slightly to reduce its thickness fits. So I've been working the hacksaw blade up from the bottom and to start with it went in a few thou but with perseverance I have now managed to work the blade right up the side of the relay body to the top. This released a pool of penetrating fluid stuck at the top. My aim is to continue this and eventually work the blade right around the relay or as far as poss and see if this releases the frozen relay body. It worth a go and I'll let you know how it goes, but thought it's a different attack method without major tools required, if it works of course!

    Cheers

    JRT

    image.jpgimage.jpg
    Those things are a bugger. In my RAEME days we were told to replace them. Yes Sir!

    Well, we would have a porta power and chains, the oxy torch to heat it all up, penetrene and it could still take more than a day. I like your thinking re the blade. Good luck, you will need it.

    PS, plenty pf anti-seize when you put it back.......
    ​JayTee

    Nullus Anxietus

    ​Getting involved in discussions is the best way to learn.

    2000 D2 TD5 Auto: Tins
    1994 D1 300TDi Manual: Dave
    1980 SIII Petrol Tray: Doris
    OKApotamus #74
    Nanocom, D2 TD5 only.

  3. #3
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    I've been lucky'ish with all of mine, I've done at least 8.
    A couple I had to work hard at with a range of packers either side and crowbars, I used stiff wire to pick out debris from the top. Plenty of WD40.
    If you can get any movement then it will eventually lift out.

    The brute force method can rip the tubular section out of the chassis. It is possible to repair in situ.

    Walter the Dormobile

    2a GS Refurb ARN 178-334

    Buy seals from a bearing company, don't bother with those supplied by most LR parts suppliers, they don't last.

    If the tapered section that runs in the Tufnol split bushes is pitted it should be OK but if the area where the seal sits on the shaft is pitted then you either need a replacement shaft, a speedy sleeve or access to a lathe. I've managed to machine the seal land down and it still seals OK (with quality seals).

    Best of luck putting it back together.....


    Colin
    '56 Series 1 with homemade welder
    '65 Series IIa Dormobile
    '70 SIIa GS
    '76 SIII 88" (Isuzu C240)
    '81 SIII FFR
    '95 Defender Tanami
    '58 Series II (sold)
    Motorcycles :-
    Vincent Rapide, Panther M100, Norton BIG4, Electra & Navigator, Matchless G80C

  4. #4
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    Update

    Thanks for the replies guys.

    Well it's out

    A bit more hard work with the hacksaw blade which I managed to get up and work around the sides of the relay about 2/3 of the circumference.

    I don't think the blade would go all the way round as the relay appeared to be slightly off centre where the flange held it.

    I thought time to try a good tap with the copper hammer and she moved.

    A brass drift and a lump hammer and more plus gas from the top, and worked it out in a few minutes. Very happy. That's been in there since 1964 and the majority of its life spent in the North of Scotland.

    Cheers

    JRT
    Attached Images Attached Images

  5. #5
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    Hats off to you. Good job. Well done!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post

    The brute force method can rip the tubular section out of the chassis. It is possible to repair in situ.




    Colin
    Indeed. I was in a Base Workshop at the time and such things were of no moment, that is of course until things went wrong, when **** fell from great heights. Life as a "Craftsman" was so much fun back then.

    Bur mostly we got them out. Bear in mind, the Army didn't have spare hacksaw blades to file down.
    ​JayTee

    Nullus Anxietus

    ​Getting involved in discussions is the best way to learn.

    2000 D2 TD5 Auto: Tins
    1994 D1 300TDi Manual: Dave
    1980 SIII Petrol Tray: Doris
    OKApotamus #74
    Nanocom, D2 TD5 only.

  7. #7
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    Cheers Guys, what a relief to get it out.

    It wasn't a quick technique but minimum of tools used and might help someone else in the future.

    Just the the rebuild to do now and I'll let you know how that goes too, thanks for the advice and replies.


    Cheers

    JRT

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRT View Post
    Cheers Guys, what a relief to get it out.

    It wasn't a quick technique but minimum of tools used and might help someone else in the future.

    Just the the rebuild to do now and I'll let you know how that goes too, thanks for the advice and replies.


    Cheers

    JRT
    LOTS of anti-sieze when you put it back in
    ​JayTee

    Nullus Anxietus

    ​Getting involved in discussions is the best way to learn.

    2000 D2 TD5 Auto: Tins
    1994 D1 300TDi Manual: Dave
    1980 SIII Petrol Tray: Doris
    OKApotamus #74
    Nanocom, D2 TD5 only.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tins View Post
    LOTS of anti-sieze when you put it back in
    I'm not sure whether anti-seize or grease helps, there's a large opening at the top so water & road dirt wash down the gap.
    Grease or anti-seize collects & holds the dirt.
    For some years it will help but I'm not sure after that......

    I did wonder about sealing the top so water & dirt can't get down there but all of mine have come out after 40 plus years and they weren't greased when assembled.


    Colin
    '56 Series 1 with homemade welder
    '65 Series IIa Dormobile
    '70 SIIa GS
    '76 SIII 88" (Isuzu C240)
    '81 SIII FFR
    '95 Defender Tanami
    '58 Series II (sold)
    Motorcycles :-
    Vincent Rapide, Panther M100, Norton BIG4, Electra & Navigator, Matchless G80C

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    I'm not sure whether anti-seize or grease helps, there's a large opening at the top so water & road dirt wash down the gap.
    Grease or anti-seize collects & holds the dirt.
    For some years it will help but I'm not sure after that......

    I did wonder about sealing the top so water & dirt can't get down there but all of mine have come out after 40 plus years and they weren't greased when assembled.


    Colin
    45+ years since I did 'em so I'll bow to your experience here, Colin.

    Although what LR did or didn't do at the factory is not necessarily a true indication of a thing's worth.......
    ​JayTee

    Nullus Anxietus

    ​Getting involved in discussions is the best way to learn.

    2000 D2 TD5 Auto: Tins
    1994 D1 300TDi Manual: Dave
    1980 SIII Petrol Tray: Doris
    OKApotamus #74
    Nanocom, D2 TD5 only.

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