Brake problems with my 2a.

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Originally Posted by Benny_IIA

I forgot to mention that the only time the brakes went all the way to the floor was when the landy was on a very step incline and I was reversing down, the pedal went all the way to the floor with no pressure at all. All of the posts have been very helpful and I will investigate the suggestions on the weekend.

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Worth noting that circumstances you describe are the very worst ones for these brakes (steep hill backwards). Drum brakes do almost all their braking on the "leading" shoes, those where the wheel cylinder is positioned so that the rotation of the wheel pulls the shoe into tighter contact with the drum.

On the Series Landrover 109, such as yours, the front brakes have two leading shoes, and the rear one leading, one trailing - that is the usual description, but it applies going forward. Going backwards, you have at the front, two trailing, at the back, one leading , one trailing. The result is that the braking effect going backwards is about 33% of that going forwards - get a little bit of air in the system, and it is not surprising that the pedal hit the floor while trying to stop on a steep backwards hill.

John

Hey,

There seems to a bit of a mix up, it is a 88".

Sorry for that.:wasntme:

Ben

G'day Benny_11A :)

Sorry about that, I automaticaly thought that with a CB master cylinder it was a 109, so then it would have a 3/4 inch CB M/cyl and not the LWB 1" CB M/cyl,well, in that case it would have 10" brakes, and single 1&1/4inch brake wheel cylinders, but if it has been converted to 11" LWB drums and shoes, it would still require the 1" M/cyl.

The procedure to set and adjust the Master Cylinder is the same with either the CB type and CV type, the wheel cylinders on the 10" brakes are much simpler, just follow the Haynes workshop manual :)


cheers

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Benny_IIA

Hey,

There seems to a bit of a mix up, it is a 88".

Sorry for that.:wasntme:

Ben

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Sorry, like Kevin I misread (or didn't read) the beginning - but make sure that the system has not been converted to lwb brakes (11" not 10" drums). With the 88, as originally built, brakes should be equally effective backwards or forwards, ans bot front and back are one leading/one trailing.

John

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

Drum brakes do almost all their braking on the "leading" shoes, those where the wheel cylinder is positioned so that the rotation of the wheel pulls the shoe into tighter contact with the drum.

.... front brakes have two leading shoes, and the rear one leading, one trailing - that is the usual description, but it applies going forward. Going backwards, you have at the front, two trailing, at the back, one leading , one trailing. The result is that the braking effect going backwards is about 33% of that going forwards ...
John

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I think that is the simplest and most easily understood explanation for leading/trailing shoes, that I have seen.

Thanks John.

Can you do the same for diffs and diff rebuilds ??


Jack

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Originally Posted by JackM

I think that is the simplest and most easily understood explanation for leading/trailing shoes, that I have seen.

Thanks John.

Can you do the same for diffs and diff rebuilds ??


Jack

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Thanks, but I'm not sure what needs explaining about diffs - and no good asking me about a diff rebuild - I've never had to do one; the only ones I've had to deal with its been a lot cheaper to fit a second hand replacement. If I had to do one I'd just follow the manual.

John

Hi everyone

we are having the same problems with the series 2 that we have done up. It has had 2 new master cylinders, wheel cylinders and all new brakes. we have pressure bled the brakes and tried driving it around with the brakes on. BUT the brakes are still spongy and go to the floor. All ideas greatfully accepted.

Clamp off all three brake hoses. this should give a rock solid pedal with only a centimetre of free play. If it does not it is either the master cylinder, probably the pushrod adjustment or very unlikely, some air still in the pipes.
Assuming this is OK, then release one hose at a time, rear first if the adjuster(s) are then set to lock the wheel, there should be no more free play and it should not be spongy. If there is free play or sponginess then there is air in the line or wheel cylinder and bleeding should remove it. slacken the adjusters at each wheel, until it turns freely, checking the pedal at each one (this tells you if you have a problem at that wheel). Clamp the hose again and repeat for each front wheel separately. This should show where the problem is/isn't. If it proves impossible to get one or more wheels turning freely without excessive pedal movement or sponginess, I would suspect that linings do not match radius of the drums, something is incorrectly assembled, or the shoes are cocked sideways (support is adjustable posts on early brakes, pressed into backing plates later).

John

When I used to work on the Army Land rover series 2 and 2a,s I found a couple of vehicles that had shoe return springs on all the drum pads and from memory they are only required on the top shoe on each wheel

PS Look at the manual for the vehicle to confirm this as my series 2a had no pedal after replacing master cylinder as well as all the wheel cylinders and drip and pressure bleeding the entire system over night.

Goodl uck hope u get it sorted.

Cheers
Gadgets:D

thanks guys I will try these ideas and let you know how we got on