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Thread: Got a spark when stop starting....

  1. #1
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    Got a spark when stop starting....

    Hi folks,

    Scenario:
    - Engine has fuel
    - Engione turns over


    What I tested so far:
    - I checked the spark plug, it does not spark when starting, but it sparks when I stop starting. As in turning the egnition off.
    - I checked the funny looking bottle thingy before the disributer... same happens there... no spark when starting I do get a spark when stop starting....

    Does anybody have an idea why or what can be wrong?

    20200119_1240471.jpg

  2. #2
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    there should be 2 wires feeding the ignition.

    one bypasses the balllast resistor and one that runs though the ballast resistor.

    the one that bypasses the ballast resistor is only powered when the engine is cranking on the starter so the coil gets the maximum possible voltage while cranking. It's likely this has come adrift.
    Dave

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  3. #3
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    Sounds like your distributor points are welded together or not opening. By turning the ignition off your effectively energising the coil . Same as what the points would do. Just that your doing in reverse by cutting the power rarther than the points cutting the earth . COMPRENDAY?

  4. #4
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    "By turning the ignition off your effectively energising the coil" ................................. actually the opposite (electrically) But you've got the right idea.

    Under normal operation when the points open the power to the coil primary winding is cut causing its magnetic field to collapse which induces a (much higher) voltage in the secondary winding which creates the spark. In the OP's case this is not happening. As theelms66 points out welded points could be the cause. Looking at the picture it appears that the condenser (capacitor) on the LHS of the coil is not connected to the coil -ve. If so this may be the cause of the problem. The function of this capacitor is to act as a 'spark quench' for the points ie. it stops the points sparking and the building up of a 'tit' which can quite quickly cause the points to short out.
    Other causes may be no points gap ie. points not opening due to mis adjustment or the -ve wire from the points to the coil grounding out.

    A test lamp is your friend here. With the ignition OFF, disconnect the -ve wire from the coil and with +ve behind the test lamp look for the negative on the wire to the points. Take the distributor cap off and manually open/close the points. With the points open the test lamp should be off.

    AFAIK (remember) Holden red engines (which this seems to be) did not have a resistor/coil setup but ran a 12 volt coil directly from ignition +ve via the points (same as the Landy). If the engine did have a resistor/coil setup and the resistor was open circuit the result would be an engine that started but didn't run when the key was dropped back from 'start'.

    Deano
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeanoH View Post
    "By turning the ignition off your effectively energising the coil" ................................. actually the opposite (electrically) But you've got the right idea.

    Under normal operation when the points open the power to the coil primary winding is cut causing its magnetic field to collapse which induces a (much higher) voltage in the secondary winding which creates the spark. In the OP's case this is not happening. As theelms66 points out welded points could be the cause. Looking at the picture it appears that the condenser (capacitor) on the LHS of the coil is not connected to the coil -ve. If so this may be the cause of the problem. The function of this capacitor is to act as a 'spark quench' for the points ie. it stops the points sparking and the building up of a 'tit' which can quite quickly cause the points to short out.
    Other causes may be no points gap ie. points not opening due to mis adjustment or the -ve wire from the points to the coil grounding out.

    A test lamp is your friend here. With the ignition OFF, disconnect the -ve wire from the coil and with +ve behind the test lamp look for the negative on the wire to the points. Take the distributor cap off and manually open/close the points. With the points open the test lamp should be off.

    AFAIK (remember) Holden red engines (which this seems to be) did not have a resistor/coil setup but ran a 12 volt coil directly from ignition +ve via the points (same as the Landy). If the engine did have a resistor/coil setup and the resistor was open circuit the result would be an engine that started but didn't run when the key was dropped back from 'start'.

    Deano
    Red engine had a ballast resistor built into the wiring. I found this out about 1966.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbjorn View Post
    Red engine had a ballast resistor built into the wiring. I found this out about 1966.
    Well there you go

    Be interesting to see if the OP has a 12 volt coil with no resistor or a 9? volt coil with resistor or a 9? volt coil with no resistor. Coil voltage is often stamped on the bottom of the coil.

    Deano
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeanoH View Post
    Well there you go

    Be interesting to see if the OP has a 12 volt coil with no resistor or a 9? volt coil with resistor or a 9? volt coil with no resistor. Coil voltage is often stamped on the bottom of the coil.

    Deano
    Workshop manual says ballast resistor wire 1.8 ohm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeanoH View Post
    Well there you go

    Be interesting to see if the OP has a 12 volt coil with no resistor or a 9? volt coil with resistor or a 9? volt coil with no resistor. Coil voltage is often stamped on the bottom of the coil.

    Deano
    I am pretty sure it is 12 volts... I will check anyways...

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeanoH View Post

    AFAIK (remember) Holden red engines (which this seems to be) did not have a resistor/coil setup but ran a 12 volt coil directly from ignition +ve via the points (same as the Landy). If the engine did have a resistor/coil setup and the resistor was open circuit the result would be an engine that started but didn't run when the key was dropped back from 'start'.

    Deano
    Hi Deano

    It is a holden red engine, initially there was another wire coming off the coil. So two wires... one is going to the ignition and the second one did not go anywhere.... Should that wire be connected to, for example, the starter motor, so it gets 12v when starting?

    I looked at the diagrams... but could not find anthing that makes sense to me as I cannot find a second wire from the + to anywhere on the diagram....

    Thanks in advance.
    H

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    You only get one shot at life, Aim well

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