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Thread: Series 3 6Cyl wont start - Pls Help

  1. #1
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    Series 3 6Cyl wont start - Pls Help

    Hello members am a newbie here and need help and guidance as i go through the build process for my first land rover. 1980-6cyl military spec. The car sat on a farm for last 4-5 years was driven daily by previous owners back then. I picked up the car and tried cracking and moves freely. Checked oil and looks pretty clean. First attempt - Tried jump starting directly by connecting to starter solenoid and a positive wire run to coil as the ignition lock is buggered and will need a new one eventually. The motor turns freely upon jump starting. No signs of it being starting or wants to start . Removed old carby and replaced it with spare carby, replaced dizzy, coil from a spare car that was running when i tried with direct fuel. So i knew that set was good enough to at least fire the engine. Replaced all, replaced with brand new plugs , cleaned all contacts on ignition leads , dizzy cap and rotor.
    Removed Cyl 1 spark plug and hand cranked to see if i can adjust the timing and firing order. When the inserted screw driver was on top of Cyl i marked the dizzy rotor position and started as Lead 1 and arranged all anticlockwise in firing order and installed. Gave the spare carby a good clean with soft brush and petrol and installed. So i got Positive to Coil direct from battery, starter solenoid and negative connected to battery leads and tried cranking with Choke ON on carby and half throttle pouring starting fluid and petrol connected to carby inlet via a fuel hose fed from a bottle of fresh fuel. No joy. just few pops out of carby and little smoke but wound not start. Moved the dizzy in few positions between advance and retard still No Joy. Removed Spark plug one and tested on body and has spark.

    Am i missing something critical ? Issue with carby of fuel not reaching to the combusting chamber ? Or some trick with timing ? The coil got hot with multiple attempts as it was fed directly, i tried with a brand new coil i had from my 6cyl Merc. Still no luck.

    Can any of you kind member run me through what i am doing wrong or may be guide me through over a phone call to get the engine going so i can slowly work my way around getting it running first and then cosmetics ? I am no expert with good with following instructions and pretty handy with basic mechanical stuff. I have a video and i can send that through as well. Photos attached herewith

    By the way the car has no brakes or clutch both pedals hits the floor. No Fluid in reservoir so assuming would need master and slave cylinders rebuilt and brakes bled through ?

    IMG_4488.jpgIMG_4489.jpgIMG_4491.jpgIMG_4492.jpg

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by pravin.vala View Post
    Hello members am a newbie here and need help and guidance as i go through the build process for my first land rover. 1980-6cyl military spec. The car sat on a farm for last 4-5 years was driven daily by previous owners back then. I picked up the car and tried cracking and moves freely. Checked oil and looks pretty clean. First attempt - Tried jump starting directly by connecting to starter solenoid and a positive wire run to coil as the ignition lock is buggered and will need a new one eventually. The motor turns freely upon jump starting. No signs of it being starting or wants to start . Removed old carby and replaced it with spare carby, replaced dizzy, coil from a spare car that was running when i tried with direct fuel. So i knew that set was good enough to at least fire the engine. Replaced all, replaced with brand new plugs , cleaned all contacts on ignition leads , dizzy cap and rotor.
    Removed Cyl 1 spark plug and hand cranked to see if i can adjust the timing and firing order. When the inserted screw driver was on top of Cyl i marked the dizzy rotor position and started as Lead 1 and arranged all anticlockwise in firing order and installed. Gave the spare carby a good clean with soft brush and petrol and installed. So i got Positive to Coil direct from battery, starter solenoid and negative connected to battery leads and tried cranking with Choke ON on carby and half throttle pouring starting fluid and petrol connected to carby inlet via a fuel hose fed from a bottle of fresh fuel. No joy. just few pops out of carby and little smoke but wound not start. Moved the dizzy in few positions between advance and retard still No Joy. Removed Spark plug one and tested on body and has spark.

    Am i missing something critical ? Issue with carby of fuel not reaching to the combusting chamber ? Or some trick with timing ? The coil got hot with multiple attempts as it was fed directly, i tried with a brand new coil i had from my 6cyl Merc. Still no luck.

    Can any of you kind member run me through what i am doing wrong or may be guide me through over a phone call to get the engine going so i can slowly work my way around getting it running first and then cosmetics ? I am no expert with good with following instructions and pretty handy with basic mechanical stuff. I have a video and i can send that through as well. Photos attached herewith

    By the way the car has no brakes or clutch both pedals hits the floor. No Fluid in reservoir so assuming would need master and slave cylinders rebuilt and brakes bled through ?

    IMG_4488.jpgIMG_4489.jpgIMG_4491.jpgIMG_4492.jpg
    I read your other post on this. What John (JDNSW) said is pretty much on the money, but I'll add this. It's been sitting you say. So, aside from what you have done, check for a blocked exhaust. Rodents, wasps etc could have nested.
    How strong is the spark you saw? Do you get decent vacuum if you cup your hand over the inlet when cranking? Do you have a compression tester? Are the leads in the correct firing order? Is the distributor cap/rotor/contact in good condition?
    ​JayTee

    Nullus Anxietus

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by pravin.vala View Post
    By the way the car has no brakes or clutch both pedals hits the floor. No Fluid in reservoir so assuming would need master and slave cylinders rebuilt and brakes bled through ?
    Yes.
    ​JayTee

    Nullus Anxietus

    ​Getting involved in discussions is the best way to learn.

    2000 D2 TD5 Auto: Tins
    1994 D1 300TDi Manual: Dave
    1980 SIII Petrol Tray: Doris
    OKApotamus #74
    Nanocom, D2 TD5 only.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tins View Post
    I read your other post on this. What John (JDNSW) said is pretty much on the money, but I'll add this. It's been sitting you say. So, aside from what you have done, check for a blocked exhaust. Rodents, wasps etc could have nested.
    How strong is the spark you saw? Do you get decent vacuum if you cup your hand over the inlet when cranking? Do you have a compression tester? Are the leads in the correct firing order? Is the distributor cap/rotor/contact in good condition?

    Thanks John & Jay Tee, i will go back and check the exhaust today and confirm the same with you, The carby did run on the other car that i pulled it off , including the coil and dizzy as a set. I don't have compression tester but will try and get to it over the weekend. There is spark how good hard to say as i don't know how strong it should be . I will replace new leads and check as well. It had few puffs when i cranked a bit longer and a little bit of smoke out of carby.
    John is right i didn't trust the owner on when it ran but need to slowly sort out and get it running. I will do the vacuum cup test as well and come back to you.

  5. #5
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    I would be checking that you have spark at all plugs. Perhaps leads have degraded over time.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by pravin.vala View Post
    .............

    By the way the car has no brakes or clutch both pedals hits the floor. No Fluid in reservoir so assuming would need master and slave cylinders rebuilt and brakes bled through ?...........
    The car having no brakes could indicate a vacuum leak, and hence would not be advancing/retarding the dizzy timing during starting, I forget which way it works.
    2005 D3 TDV6 Present
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  7. #7
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    Update on trying to get it started

    Hello guys , thanks for all the help thus far.

    Checked spark on all 6 leads and seems consistently sparking across all leads.
    Compression test results
    Cylinder 1 - 85 PSI
    Cylinder 2 - 105 PSI
    Cylinder 3 - 85 PSI
    Cylinder 4 - 80 PSI
    Cylinder 5 - 100 PSI
    Cylinder 6 - 90 PSI

    Low compression result means the piston rings are stuck due to not being used for so long ? may be causing a leak or a leak in head gasket ?

    Removed the valve cover and all valves seems to move freely with oil pouring out of rocker arms on all 6 upon cranking. Looks all clean and free of any rust.

    The cover was stuck with sealant and seems had leak in few spots and upon cranking could hear some hissing sounds out of it.

    I found a line -attached photo seems like a vacuum line and traced it all the way going to the fuel tank - is this meant to be connected ? can cause possible vacuum leak ?

    Checked the exhaust and upon cranking there is a bit of smoke flowing out and looks clear of any blockage.

    The carby does a odd pop and puff but would not fire. Gave the carby a good ultrasonic cleaner bath in petrol and a clean - looks clean but no joy.

    What are the options am looking at ? Strip and rebuild ? or find a replacement engine ? or may be an upgrade ?

    IMG_4489.jpg

  8. #8
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    G'day All,

    Gee don't give up on the engine yet. Don't be to concerned about the pressure test results. Given the engine has not run for many years all the oil on the piston groves has gone. Also the engine is cold!. A couple of teaspoons of clean oil into each cylinder and leave it for a few hours will give much higher pressures. (A reliable pressure test is always done with engine hot.)

    You have spark and compression and air so that leaves fuel as the problem. However, it maybe that you have more than one fault for fuel.

    Keep checking as you haven't found the fault/s yet!.

    Chris

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    Quote Originally Posted by Busted Syncro View Post

    You have spark and compression so that leaves fuel as the problem.

    Chris
    Dunno about that, fuel, or especially ether, down the carb should get a bit of a kick. Totally agree about the compression, I'd put some 25:1 two stroke down each plug hole and try to start it. Those comps are low but it should still start. The comps will probably come up when things loosen up

    If it was me I'd be back to basics. Get #1 to TDC and static time it to that, gap the points and plugs and maybe change the condenser, although the OP has changed the dizzy. I mean, it could be 180° out, or any number of degrees out. Gotta get the basics right first.

    Also, does it have fresh fuel?
    ​JayTee

    Nullus Anxietus

    ​Getting involved in discussions is the best way to learn.

    2000 D2 TD5 Auto: Tins
    1994 D1 300TDi Manual: Dave
    1980 SIII Petrol Tray: Doris
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    Nanocom, D2 TD5 only.

  10. #10
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    Still trying

    Hi matei have not cleaned the fuel tank yet and hence no fuel in tank or through fuel pump. I removed the fuel inlet pipe on carby and connected a quick starter bottle with a fuel pipe to carby inlet , so yes fresh fuel.
    I tried pouring petrol and starter fluid straight into the carby  inlet as well and no luck.

    With regards to timing not great with technical knowledge here but did the basic timing setup by putting a screwdriver in CYL 1 and when on top of stroke marked the lobe on dizzy and started that point as 1 and then all spark leads lined up as per the firing order.
    Happy to try and adjust timing any other way if someone can help me here. I have couple of videos and may be someone experienced with this engine can help me track the fault faster. i am not sure forum allows us to connect with members directly or share phone numbers.

    I am willing to learn and give it a try , not giving up for sure.

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