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Thread: Series Gearbox ID

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies View Post
    BTW. as mentioned by Sam, I have never seen a genuine SIIa all synchromesh box and this accords with my Jan 1972 First Edition SIIa Parts Catalogue P/N 60824 which discusses the sealed pinion but not an all synchromesh box. Perhaps this was a NAS or UK Home market option that wasn't sold here.
    Here is a post that I dredged up from Bob that comments on a bulletin that came after your parts catalogue. Assuming Bonneted Control models are utes, perhaps it is a 109" only part for the very very last of the IIa's. During this thread I'd been looking at a couple of gearboxs that I have in the garage, but it will be interesting to crawl under my IIa 109 ute that was complied 3/72 (last IIa manufactured 9/71)... with a broken gearbox!

    Quote Originally Posted by bobslandies View Post
    Land Rover Service Information Vol 1 No 2 Item 6, April 1972 gives an explanation:
    Series III type all syncromesh gearbox adapted for use on Series IIA Bonneted Control models - 4 cyl - Part No. New - 607125, Part No. Rebuilt - 607126; 6 cyl - Part Nos. 607127 and 607128 respectively. There are also sealed clutch withdrawl unit versions listed.

    Bob
    Cheers
    Slunnie


    ~ Discovery II Td5 ~ Discovery 3dr V8 ~ Series IIa 6cyl ute ~ Series II V8 ute ~

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    Short history here :-
    Land Rover gearbox history

    Colin
    Some really interesting info in there!

    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/gearboxes.htm

    The factory built a small number of all syncro series IIA gearboxes just prior to converting the box into the series III gearbox. The all syncro series IIA gearboxes can be identified by a "S" prefix on the stamped number located on the transmission top cover. Since top covers can move about when multiple gearboxes are rebuilt, and a IIA gearbox is most likely to be rebuilt in the earlier documented style, the 'S' stamp on the top cover does not guarantee the gear box under the top cover is still all syncro.

    The Series III gearbox has syncro in all gears as well as lower first and reverse gear ratios. The transfer case remained the same as was used on the late IIA. Series IIA gearboxes (D suffix & later) are generally considered to be stronger and longer lasting than early series III gearboxes (The ones imported into North America). Though a lot of this conception may have to do with people's shifting habits. Series III boxes prefer that you hesitate briefly in the neutral position while you shift gears. This puts less stress on the syncros and enhances their service life. Suffix letters on the Series III gearboxes restarted with suffix A.

    There were changes made to the SIII gearbox during its 14 years of manufacture, mostly to make them less prone to wear and to keep them from jumping out of gear. The suffix D and later Series III gearboxes (manufactured after Land Rover left the US) are considered to be the most robust of the Series Land Rover gearboxes. The principal changes were to the reverse idler gear, bearing and shaft and the syncro units.

    In general the Series gearbox is considered to be strong enough for about 120 HP, 160lbft is about the limit on torque. Early gearboxes are considered to be weaker than later IIA gearboxes. Early gearboxes tend to beak lay shafts and main shafts at the circlip groove positions. Late 2A lay shafts without the circlip groove are stronger than the early ones. According to Bob Shannon "Here is the fix for the earlier gearboxes. The lay shaft from suffix D onwards gearboxes (part # 556040) has a stepped shoulder that fits into the rear of the D-onwards series lay shaft 2nd gear. So you don't have to buy a matching set of gears (D-onwards is part # 600916) you can take an earlier lay shaft gear from the pair (Suffix A-C is part # 245766) and machine out the relieved section to replicate the later gear's greater clearance. Also a suffix D lay shaft is probably cheaper than the suffixes A (part # 09917) and B-C (part #528703). Make sure the main shaft is set up correctly!!! "
    Cheers
    Slunnie


    ~ Discovery II Td5 ~ Discovery 3dr V8 ~ Series IIa 6cyl ute ~ Series II V8 ute ~

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slunnie View Post
    ...Assuming Bonneted Control models are utes, perhaps it is a 109" only part for the very very last of the IIa's. ...!
    Thanks for the other info re: the synchro SIIa boxes, but as I said. I have never seen one IRL.

    Bonneted control is the Land Rover term for normal control Land Rover, meaning all the Land Rovers that weren't forward control (cab over engine).

  4. #14
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    series g/boxes

    Suffix C & D 11A boxes have the same 1st and 2nd ratios as S111, they changed when the low range was chasnged from 2.88:1 to 2.32:1.
    Suffix C on words also had a larger layshaft front bearing. Suffix C on had 16 teeth 1st mainshaft gear.
    The last of the 2.88:1 tranfer cases had the large intermediate shaft, this coupled to the suffix C on boxes gives a 48:1 low 1st!
    I think it was from suffx F S111 box that had the bigger reverse idler bearing
    The forward control box had extremely low ratios, with 55.6:1, same gearbox was used in 1 ton models. These were also all helical gears too.
    I put a S111 bellhousing on a 11A box in my S111.

  5. #15
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    Late SIII reinforced gearbox





    Colin
    '56 Series 1 with homemade welder
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by landrover dave View Post
    The forward control box had extremely low ratios, with 55.6:1, same gearbox was used in 1 ton models. These were also all helical gears too.
    I put a S111 bellhousing on a 11A box in my S111.
    Dave,
    do you mean the one ton/tray back land rovers?



    Cheers, Mick.
    Last edited by Lotz-A-Landies; 26th May 2015 at 01:51 PM.
    1974 S3 88 Holden 186.
    1971 S2A 88
    1971 S2A 109 6 cyl. tray back.
    1964 S2A 88 "Starfire Four" engine!
    1972 S3 88 x 2
    1959 S2 88 ARN 111-014
    1959 S2 88 ARN 111-556
    1988 Perentie 110 FFR ARN 48-728 steering now KLR PAS!
    REMLR 88
    1969 BSA Bantam B175

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mick88 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by landrover dave View Post
    The forward control box had extremely low ratios, with 55.6:1, same gearbox was used in 1 ton models. These were also all helical gears too.
    I put a S111 bellhousing on a 11A box in my S111.
    Dave,
    do you mean the one ton/tray back land rovers?

    Cheers, Mick.
    The all helical transfer case, with both high and low range constant mesh was used on forward control models (certainly the 2B FC, not sure about the 2A FC) and in the One Ton.

    As has been noted elsewhere, One Ton Series Landrovers are probably nonexistent in Australia, and there have never been more than single digit numbers. There are still a few 2A and 2B FCs about, but the numbers are now very small. (There are a lot more of the unrelated 101s)

    John
    Last edited by Lotz-A-Landies; 26th May 2015 at 01:53 PM.
    John

    JDNSW
    1986 110 County 3.9 diesel
    1970 2a 109 2.25 petrol

  8. #18
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    John,
    I probably have the wrong picture in my head.
    When referring to a "one ton" Land Rover does Dave mean the cab chassis vehicles or is there another?




    Cheers, Mick.
    1974 S3 88 Holden 186.
    1971 S2A 88
    1971 S2A 109 6 cyl. tray back.
    1964 S2A 88 "Starfire Four" engine!
    1972 S3 88 x 2
    1959 S2 88 ARN 111-014
    1959 S2 88 ARN 111-556
    1988 Perentie 110 FFR ARN 48-728 steering now KLR PAS!
    REMLR 88
    1969 BSA Bantam B175

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mick88 View Post
    John,
    I probably have the wrong picture in my head.
    When referring to a "one ton" Land Rover does Dave mean the cab chassis vehicles or is there another?




    Cheers, Mick.
    As far as I know, the One Ton Landrover was availablke either as the standard ute or cab/chassis. Of course, since the bodywork is standard Landrover, anything could be supplied to special order. But as pointed out above, they are virtually unknown in Australia.

    John
    John

    JDNSW
    1986 110 County 3.9 diesel
    1970 2a 109 2.25 petrol

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDNSW View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mick88 View Post
    John,
    I probably have the wrong picture in my head.
    When referring to a "one ton" Land Rover does Dave mean the cab chassis vehicles or is there another?

    Cheers, Mick.
    As far as I know, the One Ton Landrover was availablke either as the standard ute or cab/chassis. Of course, since the bodywork is standard Landrover, anything could be supplied to special order. But as pointed out above, they are virtually unknown in Australia.

    John
    Hi Mick

    There was a 1 Ton model introduced in late Series IIa around 1967, basically it was a 109 WB with the same chassis as an Australian military IIa but with a standard civvy rear cross member.

    They were fitted with heavier springs, 9.00 16 tyres on 6.5" rims and 4.7:1 ENV diffs front and rear but the standard Series track. The gearbox was a standard SIIa Suffix "D" or "E" with a longer mainshaft. The transfer box used the standard case but the mainshaft gear mated to the middle gear on a 3 gear intermediate shaft cluster. All gears in the FC/1 Ton transfer were helical.

    You could order them in cab chassis, hard top or ute with truck cab or soft top. Very few if any came to Oz.



    The I Ton model was continued into SIII they were 6cyl or 2 1/4 diesel and used a chassis exactly the same as the Australian military SIII. Once again the gearbox was the SIII internals with a long mainshaft and the same all helical transfer as the SIIa 1 Ton. They originally had 4.7:1 Salisbury front and rear diffs with the swivels welded onto the end of the housing. As SIII 1 Ton production continued the front diff reverted to the standard Rover unit.

    One of the SIII 1 Ton prototypes made its way to Oz in about 1974 with a couple of Poms who worked at the Solihull factory, it remained in Australia and they took home a Leyland P76 (this may have been partially used in the development of the Rover SD1).

    Brian Hejlm remembers a 1 Ton being sold through Leyland Truck and Bus in Brisbane, although you could order the SIII 109 with the 1 Ton chassis but the gearbox was the standard ratio box and they had a regular 109 chassis number. Cookey has one in his collection.

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