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Thread: Toe in or toe out

  1. #1
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    Toe in or toe out

    With a leafer that has a constant 4x4 gearbox should it be toe in or toe out and why?
    I understand that toe in is for stability in steering straight ahead, however toe out is supposed to turn to toe in under some conditions.
    With the constant 4x4 box toe out is recommended however the WSM for the 80" says toe in even with the permanent 4x4 box.
    I would like to understand more how it works.

    Keith

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    Ok.

    Toe in is generally used on a non driven steering front axle as the wheels tend to be pushed out towards a neutral toe position.
    It promotes stability.

    Toe out tends to be used on a driven front axle as the driving torque tends to pull the wheels back to a neutral toe position.

    Toe out on a RWD car gives sharper turn in (think race and rally cars) but will wander at the straight ahead.

    Toe out is never used on a driven rear axle as it makes the rear end totally unstable.
    Toe in there gives stability under power.

    Toe out on turns (Ackerman) is used on most all mass produced production cars to reduce tyre scrub on turns.

  3. #3
    JDNSW's Avatar
    JDNSW is online now RoverLord Silver Subscriber
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    Toe in also depends on the camber of the wheels, that is, how far off vertical they are. The camber of all Series vehicles is 1.5 degrees, coil sprung Landrovers are zero.

    Where the camber is not zero, but as in this case the wheels lean out at the top, toe in is necessary to prevent tyre scrubbing. Note that because of the king pin inclination and Ackerman geometry, the situation gets more complex once you are off a straight line.
    John

    JDNSW
    1986 110 County 3.9 diesel
    1970 2a 109 2.25 petrol

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    So with a series with an LT77 cruising along the highway the front axle would not really be driving. I set mine to toe out but maybe toe in should be what I should have. It does tend to wander on some uneven roads.
    I might try toe in and see how it feels.

  5. #5
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    toe in a smigen on a Series sounds good

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    cjc_td5 is offline ChatterBox Silver Subscriber
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    I just used trial and error. By adjusting slightly and then going for a drive I found a balance between wandering in the lane vs heavy steering at parking speeds. Stage 1 series.
    Chris


    2014 D4 TDV6
    1954 86"
    1963 2A Forward Control (getting the full treatment, Isuzu 4JH1, MYY5T, LT230, Toyota Axles, extended cab ++)
    1980 Stage 1 v8 (gone)

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    I forgot about the stage one with its LT95.
    What does the manual say for it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JDNSW View Post
    Toe in also depends on the camber of the wheels, that is, how far off vertical they are. The camber of all Series vehicles is 1.5 degrees, coil sprung Landrovers are zero.

    Where the camber is not zero, but as in this case the wheels lean out at the top, toe in is necessary to prevent tyre scrubbing. Note that because of the king pin inclination and Ackerman geometry, the situation gets more complex once you are off a straight line.
    I'm not sure if I agree with that John.

    I'm only visualising it but our scrub radius is unchanged, whether you run toe in or out.

    At walking pace you will get a little increased scrub with toe out, that's how it increases turn in response at speed, and under power with a constant 4wd the wheels will try to toe in anyway but it doesn't matter where our camber is.

    Things like track change through increasing rim offset affect scrub much more.

  9. #9
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    The Iveco Daily 4x4 is constant 4x4 Leaf Springs , The book says 1.5 to 2 mm toe in. The book is wrong. The tyres scrub out within a few thousand km. No pre delivery is done on these & some are found to be up to 15mm toe in.

    Wheel alignment is a rip off , they set toe in.
    The front axle was designed for a part time 4wd tractor , the axle specs Iveco copied are for part time .

    Setting 0,5 to 2mm toe Out fixes the scrub issue.

    Same translates to LandRover ,
    Part Time = Toe in
    Constant 4x4 = Toe Out .

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by 123rover50 View Post
    I forgot about the stage one with its LT95.
    What does the manual say for it?
    The stage 1 supplement manual says 1.2-2.5mm toe OUT.
    Chris


    2014 D4 TDV6
    1954 86"
    1963 2A Forward Control (getting the full treatment, Isuzu 4JH1, MYY5T, LT230, Toyota Axles, extended cab ++)
    1980 Stage 1 v8 (gone)

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