Front axle castor wedges

[COFFEY76]

Hi,

I am trying to figure out how to improve the steering in my 2A and reduce the random wander of the car.

This is a requirement of getting the car engineered.

The problem is the car doesnt want to drive in a stright line for more than a coupel meters and is a constant struggle to keep on the road if you stop concerntrating.

I know 'You'll never take the free play out of a series steering box' but......i can only hope!

A few people have suggested adjusting the front wheel castor by inserting wedges between the axle and the spring.

Basically as i havent heard of this being done on series landrovers i was wondering if it is a good idea?

Ive adjusted the steering box as much as i can but still have copious amounts of free play...

Right have front wheel as some kingpin movement.

Should i be worried about an increased angle on the diff?

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Why will you never take the play out of a series steering box?

It is a recirculating ball system, if there is wear in the system you can install oversize ball bearings.

There is also a lot of things that you need to check.

1. Firstly are all six of the tie rod ends, done up tight, lubricated and without play?
2. Are both swivels set up correctly with the correct preload?
3. are all the steering levers: steering box; steering relay top and bottom; left and right swivel housings tight without play on the splines?
4. Are your wheel bearings in good condition and correctly pre-loaded?
5. Is there play between the chassis and the steering relay? Particularly play at the bottom!
6. Is your steering box worn? Do you need to overhaul it, replace the bearings in the rocker shaft and column?
7. Is the steering wheel tight without play on the column?
8. Is the steering damper working?
9. Are your spring bushes in good condition? (all four springs)
10. Are the four spring centre bolts intact and tight?
11. Are U bolts on your axle housings tight?
12. Are your axle housings straight (not damaged or bent)?
13. Are your stub axles and swivel balls tight on the housings?
14. Do you have tyres that have a tendency to track?

If you check and/or fix all those parameters you will find that your Series Land Rover is quite stable on the road without caster wedges.

[groucho]

You should try the basic things first.
king pins/swivell pins, ball joints. relay, steering box.
A good wheel alignment place should have them. castor correction is generaly
used when the vehicle has had a spring lift or longer shackles. I have seen Many series landys especialy series 1's fitted with them for some reason.

[groucho]

Ok. Diana can type quicker than me....

[COFFEY76]

1. yes
2. not sure
3. dunno will check
4. not sure of condition
5. was pretty good last time i checked it
6. Well i guess that could be one possibility that i will tackle once cheaper options have been exhausted

7. i adjusted it as well as i could with at least 4 inces of movement left in it

8. yes
9. yes
10. yes
11. yes
12. straight
13. not sure will check
14. They are new tyres so i dont really know how they drive


Thanks for the help, this list will help me move along with it!

[JDNSW]

If you have four inches of free play - you need to find out where it is (could be a lot of little bits). Get someone to waggle the wheel while you look for it in all the places Diana suggested. There should be no more than about an inch on the rim of the wheel. If all your play is in the steering box (which is the only place in the steering linkage where there should be any play, then the box needs overhauling if it cannot be removed by adjustment.

Other points to check, not mentioned, are anything that is "springing" when you move the wheel. This could be the bulkead where it steadies the steering box support, for example, or a bent drag link, or tie rod ends that are not aligned from end to end of the drag link or tie rod.

Oh, and the only reason you would consider wedges is if the caster had been upset by fitting extended shackles without extended spring hangers - and you probably would not get that engineered anyway!

John

[Lotz-A-Landies]

See: comments in red

1. yes
2. not sure
3. dunno will check
4. not sure of condition
5. was pretty good last time i checked it There is a pressed metal retainer bolted under the cross member that is supposed to stabilise the bottom of the relay. Unfortunately this often gets oval'ed and no linger prevents side to side movement. You need to lie under neath and have someone rock the steering while you feel if there is any play between the retainer and the relay itself. I have made a replacement for mine what is machined out of plate, instead of pressed metal.
6. Well i guess that could be one possibility that i will tackle once cheaper options have been exhausted. If there is play inside the box, oversize ball bearings can be an overhaul option. Checking for play in the bushes is good, and make sure the mounting on the chassis bracket and onto the chassis is tight.
7. i adjusted it as well as i could with at least 4 inces of movement left in it. I'm thinking more of the steering wheel as it clamps to the steering shaft, 4" of play there means that there is no spline left!
8. yes
9. yes
10. yes
11. yes
12. straight
13. not sure will check
14. They are new tyres so i dont really know how they drive


Thanks for the help, this list will help me move along with it!

I find the only way to check is to do it with two people. One component at a time, you place your hand on each where it articulates with the next and have your assistant rock the steering wheel. As you do the check, write down the report on each. You can adjust things and tighten where you can as you go, but don't get distracted before you complete the check of the whole system. Then prioritise the repairs and check them off once done.

When I first bought my SIII FFR it was all over the road and you couldn't take your attention away for a second. It was very tiring to drive.

I went through it and replaced a few tie rods, tightened up some U bolts and adjusted the end float on the steering box. Now apart from the noise and nature of the Xtra-Grip tyres it's a pleasure to drive all day.

[rick130]

Upsides of increased castor ?

Greatly improved directional stability and increased self centring.

Downside ?

Depending on how far you go, can greatly increase the weight of the steering, sometimes to the point of power steering being a must.

I used to run castor wedges in a Jeep, and Dad also ran wedges in his Jeep.
American 4WD's ran barely adequate castor, and so wandered badly. I can only assume US drivers preferred light steering to any sort of directional stability.

[COFFEY76]

The size of the wedges in question would only be 6 or 7 mm high at the fat end of the wedge.

how significant would the angle of castor have to be before the steering became very heavy?

Would the replacement of the old leaf springs with new leaf springs affect the castor angle?

possibly the old angle of the swivel balls had been adjusted to suit the rusty flattened springs and with new springs this would have adverse effects on steering?


The new springs raised the vehicle significantly compared to the hight of the old springs.

[rick130]

The size of the wedges in question would only be 6 or 7 mm high at the fat end of the wedge.

how significant would the angle of castor have to be before the steering became very heavy?

Depends on tyre width, how strong you are, etc, but depending on how long your spring perches are, 6mm is a hell of a lot in one hit, I'm pretty sure I only used 1/8" ones but my memory is a bit hazy twenty five years on.

'Standard' castor angle on, say, a Defender is 3*.
We would sometimes run up to 8-9* or more on some race cars, but you had to be pretty strong physically to steer the buggers. It felt like trying to steer a truck without power steering. (increased castor increases negative camber as you wind in lock, I would use this on some cars as a crutch to help reduce mid corner understeer)

Would the replacement of the old leaf springs with new leaf springs affect the castor angle?

Yep, to a small degree, depending on how much extra camber the spring is running.

possibly the old angle of the swivel balls had been adjusted to suit the rusty flattened springs and with new springs this would have adverse effects on steering?


[snip]

I doubt it, not many people pop off swivels and slot the holes.
In a Land Rover this is a more elegant solution IMO than castor wedges, and if you are worried about the swivels moving you could scotch key them to the axle housing or something similar.