health impacts of diesel emissions

[feraldisco]

It's not a particularly new article, but the information is still pretty current - particularly the interesting bit about the new particulate filters not cutting out the smallest and most harmful particles (and you'd think that a filter that was able to cut these out would be rather restrictive).

The truth about diesel

and no...this isn't a baiting exercise as I drive a Td5...but I'm also glad I don't live in a high traffic area...

[Dougal]

A 3 year old article citing an even older US article based on estimations by unnamed air quality experts.

Sounds a bit loose to me. Euro emissions standards have tightened since that article was written, but it seems equally concerned with pre-euro vehicles which will continue to decline in numbers.
Are the authors completely unconcerned about the unclean petrol engines on the road as well?
Modern diesels run an exhaust so clean there is no soot inside the pipes. Very few petrols can meet that.

What I find particularly interesting is how the US claims in 2002 that diesel exhaust is so particularly harmful, when there are virtually no light diesel vehicles on their roads. Do their large pickup trucks and linehaul freighters make up for the 4 million miles that commuters drive in petrol vehicles in LA every day?

Colour me sceptical, but what hand do the US automakers have in lobbying to keep diesels which they don't have out of their country?

[3toes]

Reason there are so few diesel cars on the road in USA is their very tough clean air exhaust rules. These are far tougher than the relatively lax European rules. Contrary to what some in the media may want you to believe. Also these rules have been tightened progressively over the last 30 years with targets set on a rolling 10 year basis. Japan also has tougher emission rules than Europe whose rules cover CO2 leaving NO2 and particles out. All this is due to politics. USA has / had domestic access to light crude which makes petrol. Europe had only small oil resources so went harder for diesel to keep import costs down. Also Europe was never keen on this sort of thing rather believing they could tax drivers off the road.








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[Dougal]

Reason there are so few diesel cars on the road in USA is their very tough clean air exhaust rules.

So you think it has absolutely nothing to do with the US producing the worlds worst diesel engines in the 80's (converted petrols) which have forever poisoned the US public's perception of diesel?
Car makers like VW have never had a problem making and selling diesel cars which meet the US emissions standards, they've been sold in the US from the mid 80's and are still sold there now.

Does it also have nothing to do with the US car makers lobbying government rule-makers for rules which help them sell more cars and keep more US citizens employed?

These are far tougher than the relatively lax European rules. Contrary to what some in the media may want you to believe. Also these rules have been tightened progressively over the last 30 years with targets set on a rolling 10 year basis. Japan also has tougher emission rules than Europe whose rules cover CO2 leaving NO2 and particles out. All this is due to politics. USA has / had domestic access to light crude which makes petrol. Europe had only small oil resources so went harder for diesel to keep import costs down. Also Europe was never keen on this sort of thing rather believing they could tax drivers off the road.

European emissions laws are now very similar to US emissions laws. The reasons they target different emissions is due to the problems each part of the world had which needed to be solved.
The US has a massive problem with NOx (that brown crap that covers LA) and smog, hence they regulate NOx and hydrocarbon emissions more tightly.

[rick130]

Also, the US for years refused to legislate ULSD.

They only dropped to <50PPM sulphur diesel two years ago, (we are <10PPM in Australia) amid cries of impending doom.
Europe went to <50PPM diesel something like 15 years ago.

The reason we didn't get the efficient little common rail and unit injector Euro diesels for a long time was because our diesel was too dirty too.

[blackbuttdisco]

We drove a diesel motorhome for 10 months in UK. It was clean when we bought it and it had its first wash 10,000miles later.(we did 22,000miles all up). There was no diesel soot stain down the side from the exhaust, so to me, it had a very clean exhaust. (Which is more than could be said about my turbo 2A. )Had it up to 80mph before I slowed down and there was still more to go. It would do 35mpg on cruise control on the motorways at 60mph. UK may have gone metric but the distances are still in miles and fuel is sold by the litre.

[3toes]

Car makers like VW have never had a problem making and selling diesel cars which meet the US emissions standards, they've been sold in the US from the mid 80's and are still sold there now.

Of course these diesels were only sold in a few mid US states as they could not meet the emmissions standards required of California and North East USA. As they could not meet the increasingly tough rules VW withdrew diesel in the late eighties and only re introduced in last few years. Due to emissions being too high even these new ones are illegal to buy new or bring in to California as a used car buy from another state.

You have to remember USA has 2 levels of emissions rules National and State Government. The latter of which are based on winning votes by being tougher than the National Regs while following those of the future years regs set nationally just sooner.

[Dougal]

Of course these diesels were only sold in a few mid US states as they could not meet the emmissions standards required of California and North East USA. As they could not meet the increasingly tough rules VW withdrew diesel in the late eighties and only re introduced in last few years. Due to emissions being too high even these new ones are illegal to buy new or bring in to California as a used car buy from another state.

You have to remember USA has 2 levels of emissions rules National and State Government. The latter of which are based on winning votes by being tougher than the National Regs while following those of the future years regs set nationally just sooner.

That's why they call it Kalifornia. It's not about emissions levels in CA either, it's about them being diesel. I suspect even diesels exceeding future petrol emissions levels would still be decried as being dirty by CARB.
I wonder if the people making these laws had their perceptions of diesel formed by watching a 350ci oldsmobile diesel smoking it's way back to the dealership to have it's head bolts replaced again.


I find it interesting that LA has such a NOx and smog problem with essentially no light diesel vehicles, yet diesel vehicles are still the cause of all their problems. I've even read one website proclaim that most of the smog over US cities is actually generated overseas and just happens to collect there. Apparently cleaning up the Tuk-tuk's in Bangkok will reduce smog in LA.

I think it's simply easier to whip industry and trucking companies than risk upsetting the people who vote for you by making them fix their cars.

BTW it's not illegal to take a diesel car into CA, you just can't register it there unless it's over something like 8,500lb gross. There are plenty of people in california driving diesel vehicles on loan from relatives in other states.
So their rules push law abiding people who want diesel vehicles into driving cummins powered pickup trucks when all they really want is a diesel car.

[rick130]

Isn't Cali advocating/proposing zero envisions in the next couple of years ?
Effectively banning new fossil fuelled internal combustion engines ?

I read one report on oil/fuel usage a year or so back that stated that California uses more barrels of crude per annum than either China or India, even with both countries massive industrial expansion

[Dougal]

Isn't Cali advocating/proposing zero envisions in the next couple of years ?
Effectively banning new fossil fuelled internal combustion engines ?

I read one report on oil/fuel usage a year or so back that stated that California uses more barrels of crude per annum than either China or India, even with both countries massive industrial expansion

I think their original deadline for zero emission vehicles (i.e. electric powered by coal power plants) has flown by years ago. That was to sell cars in Cali you needed to have zero emission cars on the showroom floor.
Didn't fly. Turns out you can't mine hydrogen either.