Seat belts in a Series 1, anyone done it?

[newhue]

For me part of the interest or greatness in a Series 1 is that it's like a car that breaks the rules, perhaps that could be LR in many ways. No locks, no seat belts, no ash tray, no roof, no lots of things, even wipers in some cases; all go into why a series is what it is. There is a freedom to it compared to todays complexities.

I don't mind driving without seat belts, but it has me thinking if I want to take the kids for a good drive, I should consider what options there are for seat belts.

Has anyone fitted lap sash type belts, discretely, if there is such a thing.
I assume over the sholder are out of the question as there is nothing to fix it to.

[JDNSW]

When I bought my Series 1 in 1962 it was already fitted with three point seat belts. The SMHEA fitted them to thousands of Series 1s from about 1952.

Fitting lap belts would be simple, but three point belts would require you to fit a roll bar or similar. In either case, I suspect engineering would be needed.

John

[Lotz-A-Landies]

John's correct about SMHEA fitting seat belts. They had a variety of designs including a lateral chest belt.

I have lap only belts in my Army SIII but it concerns me greatly not having a shoulder point (from a medical perspective). In the SII/SIII body type you can use the MRC7354 seat belt anchorage rail kit fitted to UK vehicles and you could likely adapt it to the s1. Essentially it is a rail in the front of the tub that has vertical elements that rise behind the seats and then extends across the vehicle and then back down the other side there are also stays that slope back into the tub. The inertia reel units sit behind the transom and the shoulder point is on the corner of the rail.

What ever you do don't put sideways facing seats in the tub for the kids. Recent accident research has proved beyond doubt that lateral seating risks significant, potentially fatal, spinal injuries from relatively minor incidents.

Diana

Your other option would be to use a 4 point harness with the shoulder anchorage to the rear of the tub.

[series1buff]

I recall reading of a series 1 being hit from behind in a nasty prang , on a UK freeway .. the driver survived unscathed because he had a roll over bar and seat belts fitted .

This is only heresay, but apparently, in NZ, lap only belts are not legal. Because:

There is debate on what is safer, no belts at all and being thrown out , or with lap belts only , you are sort of prone to being hurt more .

Years ago , about 1977 , I was on a Jeep outing with the MV club down here. A CJ2A in the group completely lost it's brakes on a long downhill , gravel, windy mountain road. It was the car immediately behind me and the timing could not have been worse . The Jeep passed me at a great speed , the two guys were hanging on for dear life as it sped around a LH corner out of my sight . I rounded the corner ..no Jeep in sight ..... they had run off the road into the steep bush on the RH side of the road. They hit a tree dead on centre . No seat belts ..they were both thrown over the bonnet , landed in bushes and scrub..not a scratch on them .

The reason was, a fractured rear pipe on the axle housing, it wasn't fixed to the housing properly and the vibrations fatigued the pipe .

Mike

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Statistically, what ever the mechanism of the crash, you have a better chance of survival or having less serious injuries, if you stay belted up within the vehicle.

That is not to say that in a vehicle without roll over protection, you won't be killed or seriously injured if restrained and there is a possibility you may have been better off being thrown, but that is only in a few exceptional cases.

[The ho har's]

Jason, Yes it can be done, lap easily, however 3 point yes you will need a fixing point and whichever way you go an engineering certificate

Mrs hh

[series1buff]

Statistically, what ever the mechanism of the crash, you have a better chance of survival or having less serious injuries, if you stay belted up within the vehicle.

That is not to say that in a vehicle without roll over protection, you won't be killed or seriously injured if restrained and there is a possibility you may have been better off being thrown, but that is only in a few exceptional cases.

In the case I witnessed, if they had seat belts on, the whiplash would have been horrific, more than likely they would have had broken necks or other serious injuries from the upper torso being banged into the dash etc. . But as you said , there isn't any rule that fits all situations.

[newhue]

Thanks all, who or what is SMHEA, got a lot to learn.
I'd actually be surprise if lap sash were allowed legally. I seem to recall somewhere that they anchor you torso enough only to allow it to be bounced around on the internals of the car.

How times change though, I recall driving from Brisbane to Carnarvan Gorge in the back of a Nissan G60 in the side seats. Shook the daylights out of us kids but did we have a ball.

[JDNSW]

...... . But as you said , there isn't any rule that fits all situations.

No, but statistics (initially compiled by the SMHEA mostly on Series 1 Landrovers!) clearly show that any sort of seat belt that keeps you restrained and in the vehicle is far safer in almost all cases (There are anecdotal cases where it appears to be safer not to have worn them, but these are very few compared to the cases where the dead bodies show that wearing them could not have been more dangerous - I heard all of these when wearing first became compulsory, at which time I had been wearing seat belts for more than a decade).

The SMHEA experience was that seat belt reduced fatalities from vehicle accidents to almost zero from several a week (from memory). And it is worth noting that this was with a variety of different belts, none of them retracting, and quite a few simple lap belts, and none with "approved" or "engineered" fitting, or even "approved" belts. The value of their figures was that by making it a firing offence to not wear the belt, and keeping good records, they were able to clearly show the value of seat belts for reducing deaths and injuries. It is no accident that compulsory fitting and wearing of seat belts was an Australian first.

John

[JDNSW]

Thanks all, who or what is SMHEA, got a lot to learn.
I'd actually be surprise if lap sash were allowed legally....... .

Snowy Mountains Hydro Electric Authority.

I think you mean lap belts not lap-sash, which is the normal three point type. I have not looked at any current cars, but certainly until very recently lap belts were the normal centre fitting on any three across seat (including the last Defender I looked at). I would be surprised if they were not legal, especially in an older vehicle where it is not possible to fit three point belts without major changes.

John