some puma 90 niggles and frustrations (Warranty)

[Leroy_Riding]

I’ve been avoiding posting this for a while but its really starting to get to me now,

This post is a two part, first to complain and vent, and second to ask for advice, I know both have been covered before though I’m after things more specific to my situation.

I will start with the whole story:

So i headed on out to drive Brisbane to Mt Isa in my MY12 puma 90 (2.2) towing an empty 7x5 trailer with a weight of 360KG
I had my 40ltr Engle in the back loaded with drinks and snacks, my triumph tail pack off my bike for my clothes and a hammer coat tool box with an assortment of tools I thought wise to take. all up my load (trailer included) would have come in at under 500KG EASY!

I started off on my journey the back way out toward Dalby and managed an acceptable near flat 10ltr to the 100 by my math through hills and winding rounds, filled up in Dalby and continued on.

Now on flat roads I expected better consumption instead I started getting consumption figures around 12-13 ltrs to the 100 but thought maybe it’s just the trailer and the hotter location.

anyway ill cut this bit short, i get to Mt Isa with an average of around 13-14 ltr to the 100 by my math (calculating the ks travelled between fuel stops and the amount that then goes back into the tank)

I also notice she seems a bit down on power but talking to locals the tell me it the air up there and all cars run bad efficiency so i think no biggy I can handle that.

then I notice my mud flat (around the exhaust one) is melted/deformed around the exhaust outlet, i believe this was due to higher exhaust tempts form the 'towing load' again from advice from others as this is my first Turbo diesel, so no biggy.

skip ahead a week in MT Isa (as my car didn’t move much while there as i jumped in with friends there)

we leave MT isa myself in my car now with about 250KGs in the back of the defender (my rear seats are removed and I swear they weighed almost that much while removing them!!!!) and a small car trailer with a dry weight of 650KG and a KE30 corolla on top which would be lucky to weigh 700KG so lets say a not load of 2ton on the car (well within limits)

my best mate has his V8 D2 with my 7x5 and a suzuki sierra jammed in it behind him fully loaded up with his full snapon roll cab and tools in his car he was overloaded in my opinion but handled it with ease.

again skip forward a little, were driving and I’m getting around 18ltr to the 100 by my math on the fly (going by half a tank on the gauge and the amount of KM's travelled) which I’m thinking okay bigger load fair enough.

we are about 50kms north of Winton now in convoy and a cow crosses the road. I back off and give my mate the heads up over the uhf there’s a cow on the road, to which he responds "what was that" I reply "cow on the road" and I get back a "no the hue puff of white smoke from your car" at which point I’m still Decelerating for the cow and im thinking what is he on about? when the cow moves so I put my foot back on the accelerator and the engine then decides to rattle and grumble and just die and I am forced to pull over.

I try turning it off, giving it a crank and it just pumps white smoke out and wont start. . so I think, okay what’s going on, I pop the hood, all looks good, oil/coolant yeah no worries, so I check the water trap on the fuel filter again nothing to report.

time to call land rover road side assist, we try the lock unlock process, nothing.

they try the hold the brakes and gas flat down and crank for 10 seconds, nothing but plooms and plooms of white smoke out the exhaust and no go.

she then decides to send a tow truck to tow me into Winton where we got my clothes out of my car and into my mates and threw some of his stuff into my car so I could fit in his with him.

we had to ditch the trailer in Winton (had friends from MT isa come down and tow it back there later on) and leave my car in Winton with the road side assist to have it taken to the closest dealer (Townsville)

I made it home in my mates D2 (without issue at all!)

so that all happened on the 2nd January.

im going to skip a bit of stuff here as this is getting rather long.

basically my car has been at the dealership in Townsville undergoing a warranty job for 2 weeks and they still can’t get the car started.

so far they have done:

first step, a diesel test (to determine waranty job or not)
which came back A-Okay so they pulled the Injectors to be tested, which found one injector was 'Stuck open' the assured me this is the issue and once replaced all will be good and my car returned to me.
injector gets replaced. still no change what so ever. .

now they have ordered a new high pressure diesel pump (which the mechanic there tells me is 2,500psi[seems very low pressure to me I would be more inclined to {with ym limited knowledge of diesel} to be 25,000psi)
which is now on backorder as none are in stock in Aus. . .

so basically I have been without my car fro 2 weeks and its in Townsville im in Brisbane, progress is very very very slow. and seems I am no closer to a resolution.

a couple of things to point out that concern me.

the car overheated and dumped its coolant a while back and the heater hose was replaced under warranty, im not sure what else may or may not have been done that that point.

when talking to the mechanic, no offence to him but he didnt seem to sound like he knew what he was talking about, but again Im new to this turbo diesel world so he may very well know exactly what he is talking about and im the muppet.

he told me that they have put over 40hours of work into my car totalling over $7,500 dollars in labour so far, which to me seems like 2 things, A: they charge through the nose per hour!!!! and B: what have you done that has taken you 40 hours :|

I asked about the mud flat melting and the mechanic assured me this happens to all defenders that do highway driving so I figure fair enough hes the mechanic

so here comes the second part of my post the questions.

what do people think in wrong?
when/if I get my car back what things should I be checking and forcing a dealer to repair or replace under warranty before they 'fail'
whats the go with my consumption does that sound right?
is the mechanic right about the mud flap?

advice on steps to take people please?
(bear in mind the dealer has always asked my questions and I am in no way in arguments with them or taking a stab at them in a bad way they seem to be doing whatever LRUK ask of them and have stated they cant do any more as then its not a warranty thing)


Leroy

[carlschmid2002]

My mud flap melted on the way up from Melbourne. I to returned horrendous fuel economy driving up but it improves considerably when I slowed down. I have just got it back from the dealers after it dumped all its coolant from a rubbing hose clamp. Any chance of getting a new mudflap on warranty? I was lucking the coolant issue happened in Melbourne before I left and not in the middle of QLD or NSW. I am now in Townsville if you need help with anything.

[slugworth]

I have read that the mudflap melting issue only occurs when towing. Something to do with airflow interacting with the load and flipping the mudflap up.

Not much help, but my MY11 90 is getting ~10.5 l/100 after 18,000 km, no towing though.

[Green Elephant]

Im sorry I have no advice on what may have failed. I have towed in the middle of winter and in 37 degree ambient temp in summer and really had no difference in consumption.

I had a few inconsistent fuel consumption results every now and then, and always felt like power levels were changing. I purchased an Ultra Gauge, which now shows ambient temps, EGR flow, water temps, turbo boost and fuel rail pressures, among many other pieces of information.


Interestingly the hottest the puma gets is on the highway, 96 degree water temp consistently while pulling the camper trailer at 100kph. The turbo is almost always at 22psi to maintain this speed. The combination of revs and constant boost is the key factor here. I have not been able to get higher than 93 degrees while in lowrange, regardless of what I am towing or the ambient air temp. I strongly recommend something like the ultragauge, it just helps keep a close eye on things. All the little questions of "is this normal" are out of my mind now... I can almost tell you how much EGR flow there is from the seat of the pants thanks to the ultra gauge.

[KarlB]

Mud flap is a warranty item (I am on to my third and a new one is on the way to the dealer for me). Just poor design of Australian spec. exhaust. Has nothing to do with towing.

Cheers
KarlB

[Leroy_Riding]

Thanks for the replies so far,

i was traveling at 90-100kmph when the limit was 110 like I normally do as before this it has given me great results in the low 9's while comuting to work (46kms 28 that as highway)
I also jam my foot into the sidewall of the cabin when on highway so my foot isnt bouncing around either as I noticed if my foot bounces around then the consumption gets worse. and I held constant speed.

regardless of fuel consumption I only put that in there incase it sparked a thought from a memeber as to what could be the cause of my issue.

ill ask about the mudflap being replaced on warranty aswell though doubt they will as mine is also damaged form offroad use so I think chances there are slim.

also anyone else had the intake grill fall off? mine must have come of somewhere on the way up (is being replaced under warranty aswell they told me so should be okay on that front)

[carlschmid2002]

As I said before, I have just moved up here. If you need a lift or somewhere to stay when you collect it PM me and I will send you my mobile number. I move into our new house here next Wed.

[gng1]

also anyone else had the intake grill fall off? mine must have come of somewhere on the way up (is being replaced under warranty aswell they told me so should be okay on that front)

Yes, the RHS air intake grill has come off on our 2012 110. Only got the vehicle less than 2 months ago... Noticed it loose when I washed the car and it came off when I touched it. Not the best design, I think. I will be asking for a warranty replacement.

[Leroy_Riding]

As I said before, I have just moved up here. If you need a lift or somewhere to stay when you collect it PM me and I will send you my mobile number. I move into our new house here next Wed.

Thanks for the offer, though Land Rover customer care will be freighting the car to Brisbane for me at there cost if it ever gets fixed that is lol.

[Hitower]

Leroy, just been talking with Diesel mechanic friend. He is of the opinion that white smoke, fuel economy and not starting issue as you have described is generally systemic of a diesel with the timing out of whack. We were both not short of the fuel delivery system in the Puma engines, but it would be well worth your while to have Land Rover go back to basics and check this. It may be as simple as the timing belt jumping a tooth or tension issue.
Hope this helps and keep us all informed on the out come.
Cheers
Tony