Anti roll bars in defender 90

[lackuwaxa]

Hi guys, looking at the new my13 parts and price options catalogue it has listed that you can swap the boost alloys for hd steel wheels with Goodyear mtr's for bout $470 .. However it says in the brackets that this will remove the front and rear anti roll bars .. Why would this be? And how would it affect the on road handling? I'd prefer steel as u can't beat alloy back into shape when u bend em and I prefer the look of the steelies ..

Wade

[debruiser]

Hi Wade,

I was talking to a dealer about steels on a 90 yesterday. (I'm getting a 2013 D90 as well ) He was saying that they could NOT supply a 90 with steels because they are too heavy for the ABS system, ie the system isn't rated for that much "spinning weight" (whatever you call it). And apparently there is some rule that they can't...

BUT he then went on to say (and I think this is the important part for you and I) that he didn't think that steels where a good idea on a 90. He seemed somewhat disappointed by his own argument here; he likes the look of steels on a 90....

reasons he gave me are:
- the extra mass of the wheels means that when going over rough roads they exaggerate the bouncy nature of a 90 - alloys don't do this as much because of the suspension set up
- he also argued that the steels did not handle (steering wise) as nicely at the alloys.

His suggestion to me was "drive your new 90 on the alloys for a bit. If you decide you want steels, go for it. BUT keep your alloys! within one week you will be changing them back over."

Now I guess 70% of all that is HIS opinion. I was on the phone to him for 45mins (he's a dealer in another town) and he seemed to know what he was talking about; A real land rover guy....

I have only driven 1 D90 about 8kms - it had something like 50kms on the clock and had alloys so my knowledge of D90s is VERY limited.... but using his argument you could keep your alloys and run on them for everyday use, then purchase a set of steels with nice angry tyres for "play time"

I won't be doing this.... I'm just going to run on the alloys at least until I wear out the first set of tyres.... BUT i have a Series 3 109 in the shed for "play time" so my 90 is only going to do daily drive and light non-beach 4x4 work. at least until it gets a bit older....

[lackuwaxa]

Attached is a scan of the back page of the 2013 Model Specifications for the Defender ..

You can't get the HD steelies on a 110 SW, but it seems pretty clear that you can on a 90 SW .. I haven't driven a Puma 90 with steelies before, but I have driven a older 300tdi one with .. I get that they are heavier, but i'm pretty sure the running gear is identical between the models ..

I'm just confused why they would require the removal of the sway bars, especially on a 90, on road they do get a bit of the old boat action happening, i would think that that would be exacerbated (made worse ) without the sways in ..

Wade

p.s. I noticed that the 90 gets the Heavy Duty Suspension as standard in the 2013 model, pretty sure that wasn't an option in the 2012, but i may be wrong

[debruiser]

You are right.... it says you can get them....

I was just going off what I was told... hadn't looked it up. That's interesting that 2013 gets the HD suspension... I like it

My understanding of sway bars is that they stop/cut down on left/right sway ie for cornering. Straight line "boat action" wouldn't change as far as I can see. BUT I'm no mechanic... nor engineer....

[KarlB]

You need to be mindful that alloy rims are very much stronger than steel and consequently you are far more likely to damage steel rims. Also, steel rims, being about one third heavier than alloy, will result in poorer braking, reduced acceleration, and higher fuel consumption. As for the repairability of rims in the bush, small dents in either can be bashed back. Any sever damage to a steel rim would require, at a minimum, a bloody big sledge hammer, but most likely specialist equipment, including welding gear. You need to think about the circumstances under which you may damage a rim. It is most likely to occur when you are running low tyre pressures and driving too fast. The two should never go together. A much more sensible way of dealing with concern for potential rim damage is to carry two spares.

Cheers
KarlB

[rick130]

You need to be mindful that alloy rims are very much stronger than steel and consequently you are far more likely to damage steel rims. Also, steel rims, being about one third heavier than alloy, will result in poorer braking, reduced acceleration, and higher fuel consumption.
[snip]
Cheers
KarlB

Broad, broad brush strokes there, Karl.
Almost Rolf Harrisesque

Put it this way, no Land Rover factory aluminium alloy rim has the rated load capacity of the HD 6.5" steel rim.

At best they're half the rating.

Really good alloy rims like Performance's TX-1 or Compomotive Rallye Raid ones are brilliant, but not all are built that tough.

As for the increase in unsprung weight and a noticeable difference on an already bloody heavy live axle and we already have LT tyres is starting to draw a long bow.

I'd be happy with either, but only an HD aluminium rim.

[rick130]

[snip]

My understanding of sway bars is that they stop/cut down on left/right sway ie for cornering. Straight line "boat action" wouldn't change as far as I can see. BUT I'm no mechanic... nor engineer....

More correctly called anti-roll bars, they reduce body roll but have no effect in pitch or squat, ie. fore and aft load transfer.

[jimr1]

Hi guys, looking at the new my13 parts and price options catalogue it has listed that you can swap the boost alloys for hd steel wheels with Goodyear mtr's for bout $470 .. However it says in the brackets that this will remove the front and rear anti roll bars .. Why would this be? And how would it affect the on road handling? I'd prefer steel as u can't beat alloy back into shape when u bend em and I prefer the look of the steelies ..

Wade

Hi Wade $470 to swop Boosts for steel , sounds like the deeler is giving less and charging more . The 90 has been around for a long time fitted with steel wheels . I can't see what differance steel vs alloy can make , I would have thought tyre type, and tread pattern for handling . Also you would have to be driving hard to damage an alloy . If it were me I would put the $470 towards a second hand set of wheels and tyres for off road . regards , jimr1 ...

[lackuwaxa]

Hi jimr1,

Sorry that's the steel with the Goodyear mtr's .. The mtr's on the alloys are also $470 .. So essentially it's a free swap alloy for steel ..

My question isn't a value question, it's more about if anyone knows why the steelies require the anti roll bars to be removed .. Off road no roll bars can be a good thing can give u more articulation, but not so great on road .. I have always run steel on my 4bys and just prefer it .. On a live axle I can't imagine the small weight increase would cause any noticeable difference ..

Wade

[rick130]

Hi jimr1,

it's more about if anyone knows why the steelies require the anti roll bars to be removed ..


Wade

The anti-roll bars are often optional, they have been on and off in the 110 over the years.
The wheels won't make a difference to whether you have the ARB's fitted or not, it'll be an option pack thing. ie, 265/75 tyres, we reckon you need ARB's and we'll charge appropriately, 7.50/16's, you won't be driving it as hard as the tyre isn't as stable so we'll forego ARB's and save the company some $

And FWIW the 130 has always come with ARB's front and rear and it's fitted with the 6.5" HD steel wheels.