Defender TD5 vs Puma - 2nd hand buyer guide

[rar110]

I thought I'd start a tread on the TD5 vs Puma Defender model as I could one day move up to the 20th or 21st century and be a buyer of a newer Defender that my wife might be keener to do trips in (not a chance at the moment but you need to have hope).

Reading a few threads Ive picked up that the Puma is much more comfortable a vehicle and nice inside. Ive driven Newhue's 130 and was quite impressed in terms of power, torque, interior design and engine noise. However, the Puma seems to have a high incidence of diff and gearbox/transfer failures. And, those sorts of problems are hugely expensive if you don't have a warranty which makes me wary. However, Im getting the feeling that later production models are having fewer problems i.e the 2.2l Puma. Production of the Puma is probably going to finish at the end of next year, with 2014/5 Defender destined to have a mono chassis and completely new shape.

The td5 got itself a very good reputation particularly at the end of the production in 2006. The 2002 to 2006 models seem to be very reliable and have few problems (although I would probably at least carry a spare fuel pump and carby cleaner for oil in the loom problem) even though they went for a banjo diff. Its interior is not as refined as a Puma but is easily good enough for me.

So I thought I'd throw it open for discussion, particularly as it seems quite a few people on here have owned both.

thanks

[tuesdayfox]

hi rar110,
are you coming to the landy expo?
why dont ya take a drive in a 2.2. would love to see your face after driving one.

2.2 has engine blanket and hence a lot quiter
and i think land rover must have fixed the driveline problem as the cost of the warranty job that could have been avoided is quite significant.....

just remember to factor in the placebo effects that people experience with their landies......

[BilboBoggles]

I own a 03 TD5, and a 2013 PUMA. I've traded an MY09 PUMA on the MY13.

I like the TD5, and compared to the MY09, I felt the TD5 was better, it sounded and felt much nicer to drive. I think the TD5 was also better built with less cost cutting on little things. But hands down the MY13 2.2 beats both of them, its so much quieter, and smoother.

Most TD5's are now getting on in years and k's. I've spent a large fortune in maintenance on the MY03 over the years, as in $3000-8000 per year. Flywheels, Harmonic Balancers and a number of other maintenance tasks. I think you can spend an awful lot of money maintaining a TD5. All the better if you can do the work yourself, but even then the parts are not always cheap. Mine has 220,000 on it now, I don't think it's a really bad example - 220 out of the DMF was not too bad really, but still expensive to fix.

The MY09 Puma was nice, interior was better than the TD5 by a long way, the AC worked really well. But I could never get used to the roughness of the drivetrain, or the rattle of that engine. IT was bloody awful to drive, I don't think I ever got a nice gear change out of it. Whereas the TD5 I never get a bad shift. I suspect many of the issues were down to the EGR valve. Had that changed a few times, improved for a bit and then went back to crap. I hated the engine tone of that one. There is a nice defender noise (TD5) and then a rough nasty broken sound (2.4). I also have a few series 2a's and so I'm not adverse to a bit of noise, in fact I just organised to buy a V8 county, now that will be a nice noise...

The MY13 with the 2.2 is my favorite. It's got everything the MY09, but a much nicer engine. Many of the little issues I had with the MY09 have not happened with the MY13. (Both my MY03 and MY09 went through 3 diffs each in the firs few thousand k's, and they both leaked water badly.). No longer does the whole vehicle rattle to a stop when you turn it off, the 2.2 just .. stops... silently (well as close as you can get). It also does not do any weird rough running white smoke blowing crap that that 2.4 did when starting from cold, it just .. starts.! The traction control seems to work better on the 2.2 compared to the 2.4, not sure what changed there. About the only complaint I have is the entire hose situation under the bonnet. Looks like a Freddy Kruger nightmare, and I've already had an intercooler hose pop, I think they make those out of Fast Food eating diseased cow arteries.

I do think though that in time the 2.4 and the 2.2 will prove to be cheaper to maintain than the TD5, less expensive parts to wear out (no DMF for example).

Offroad - the Puma has better traction control, but less articulation (no sway bars on the 03 TD5).

[isuzurover]

Just install puma seats and dash into yours and you will have the best possible combination of 110 bits.

(and the Grubb's auto conversion kit if you want it to be a bit quieter on the highway).

[rar110]

hi rar110,
are you coming to the landy expo?
why dont ya take a drive in a 2.2. would love to see your face after driving one.

2.2 has engine blanket and hence a lot quiter
and i think land rover must have fixed the driveline problem as the cost of the warranty job that could have been avoided is quite significant.....

just remember to factor in the placebo effects that people experience with their landies......

No wont be going this year. Unfortunately it clashes with other commitments & I have a fuel tank leak which won't be fixed by then.

[rar110]

I own a 03 TD5, and a 2013 PUMA. I've traded an MY09 PUMA on the MY13.

I like the TD5, and compared to the MY09, I felt the TD5 was better, it sounded and felt much nicer to drive. I think the TD5 was also better built with less cost cutting on little things. But hands down the MY13 2.2 beats both of them, its so much quieter, and smoother.

Most TD5's are now getting on in years and k's. I've spent a large fortune in maintenance on the MY03 over the years, as in $3000-8000 per year. Flywheels, Harmonic Balancers and a number of other maintenance tasks. I think you can spend an awful lot of money maintaining a TD5. All the better if you can do the work yourself, but even then the parts are not always cheap. Mine has 220,000 on it now, I don't think it's a really bad example - 220 out of the DMF was not too bad really, but still expensive to fix.

The MY09 Puma was nice, interior was better than the TD5 by a long way, the AC worked really well. But I could never get used to the roughness of the drivetrain, or the rattle of that engine. IT was bloody awful to drive, I don't think I ever got a nice gear change out of it. Whereas the TD5 I never get a bad shift. I suspect many of the issues were down to the EGR valve. Had that changed a few times, improved for a bit and then went back to crap. I hated the engine tone of that one. There is a nice defender noise (TD5) and then a rough nasty broken sound (2.4). I also have a few series 2a's and so I'm not adverse to a bit of noise, in fact I just organised to buy a V8 county, now that will be a nice noise...

The MY13 with the 2.2 is my favorite. It's got everything the MY09, but a much nicer engine. Many of the little issues I had with the MY09 have not happened with the MY13. (Both my MY03 and MY09 went through 3 diffs each in the firs few thousand k's, and they both leaked water badly.). No longer does the whole vehicle rattle to a stop when you turn it off, the 2.2 just .. stops... silently (well as close as you can get). It also does not do any weird rough running white smoke blowing crap that that 2.4 did when starting from cold, it just .. starts.! The traction control seems to work better on the 2.2 compared to the 2.4, not sure what changed there. About the only complaint I have is the entire hose situation under the bonnet. Looks like a Freddy Kruger nightmare, and I've already had an intercooler hose pop, I think they make those out of Fast Food eating diseased cow arteries.

I do think though that in time the 2.4 and the 2.2 will prove to be cheaper to maintain than the TD5, less expensive parts to wear out (no DMF for example).

Offroad - the Puma has better traction control, but less articulation (no sway bars on the 03 TD5).

Great write up - thanks.

[rar110]

Just install puma seats and dash into yours and you will have the best possible combination of 110 bits.

(and the Grubb's auto conversion kit if you want it to be a bit quieter on the highway).

That would help, but another issue is time availability to fix niggly things. Time availability will only get worse. It's a great vehicle, strong, and SIMPLE, and really well set up now. Just doesn't tick the comfort box for long highway stretches. I'll probably continue noise mitigation efforts and see how that goes.

[Summiitt]

I'm onto my third 130 puma, it's running alongside a chipped td5 130 tray top that one of my employees drive. We do forestry/bush work and while the td5 has been great, I could never go back to driving one. The gear ratios are hopeless for the torque of the motor, that's where the 6speed leaves the old 5 speed for dead, the torque of the 2.2is brilliant considering what it's trying to move. The interiors are far better as far as dust sealing goes and it's light years ahead on the open road with the extra gear. Mind you we do operate the utes at about 3200kg gvm and run them off road at or above those weights. As for driveline issues, havnt had any, maybe I'm lucky but I'm not exactly gentle on the vehicles and drive them pretty hard..I'd aim for a 2010 onwards, and remember they don't really free up until about 45,000km.

[tbdefender]

get a 300TDI, no electronic dramas at all! I'm never trading up, everything i hear about anything from the TD5 on is enough to make me stay happy with a 300TDI. I honestly think u buy a defender to 'drive it' not be 'driven around in it' and the noise is part of the 'experience'.

I always say if i was going to look at an upgrade id just spend more on my 98 than a newer option. Even the guy who i bought mine from had just bought a 2012 for 'his wife' and told me in a private moment that he didn't want to sell the 98 because he preferred it.

Thats my opinion anyhow.

[Scallops]

07 Puma owner here - original diffs and box - all good. You hear about ones with trouble, not all the rest that are perfectly OK.