202's, Radiators, Gearboxes and other crazy things

[EKjimmy]

I've had the usual scour through the archives and google and can't really find the answers I'm after. I'm not particularly good at searching on forums so if I've missed the info i need feel free to point me in the right direction.

I've got a Series 3 109 which has a red 202 fitted to the standard landy 4 speed (plus an overdrive). It was originally a 4 cyl, and has had the radiator support (grille) panel moved forward approximately 6 inches in order to cram the 202 and what looks like a v8 holden radiator in.

I don't mind the 202 at all, I know my way around them, parts are cheap and easy to get and it performs very well, so for the time being it will stay.
I want to move the radiator and grille panel back to the standard spot. The width and height of the v8 radiator means it will not come back far enough as the steering relay gets in the way.
It currently has a commodore fan and shroud fitted, however if I can get the radiator back far enough and clearance to the front of the engine is a problem I could always put in a pusher fan assuming it will provide enough airflow.

So, what radiators are people using which will fit back in the standard spot but are still capable of keeping the 202 cool? I've seen some photos of 186 powered series with Torana radiators, which seem to fit between the LH inner guard and steering relay but don't know how it would cope with cooling the 202 (from what i've heard they tend to overheat a bit when put into these old girls).
Alternatively, would it be easier to source 2.6 6cyl prop shafts and move the whole shebang further back (modifying engine mounts and firewall in the process of course).
Is it that simple, or do the 6cyls bear differences other than engine mount location, prop shaft lengths and firewalls?

On to the next odd subject - although there is a tiny bit of information on the forum again not enough detail for what i'm trying to find out, or would require parts which are NLA and i'd imagine very hard to find.

I'd like to boot the old 4 speed- far too noisy, prone to leaks, and I have to have an overdrive strapped on the back.
I've got a few options here - for the time being I think I'll keep the 202. The first thing that jumps into my mind is a toyota 5 speed - still easy to find the adapters, I've only ever had good experiences with toyotas, parts are easy to get etc etc.
I know early celica/supra 5 speeds can be adapted to the 202 without a drama. The main problem I can think of is adapting the box to the land rover transfer case. Another problem is that I think the shifter position might end up being too far back.
And lastly, I'd imagine this would put the TC further back, requiring new propshafts = more time and money.
I've seen a few bits and pieces about landcruiser 5 speeds, but not enough specific info on which boxes will work.
Ideally I'd like to find a solution which will fit in without needing new or modified prop shafts, and preferably using a common gearbox with good parts availability.

In the long term I'm leaning towards another frankenstein setup - Hilux axles and brakes front and rear, Hilux 5 speed and TC, and an EFI 3RZ 2.7. I know the Hilux rear diff isn't offset to the right like a Landy one, which I imagine may cause clearance issues with crossmembers, so the other option may be something like a Landcruiser TC and rear diff.
Basically I want more modern driveability, reliability and easy parts availability, and preferably using parts from the same car rather than bits and pieces from all over the place.

It's starting to sound like a better idea to buy a Hilux and drop the landy body on, however I don't know if re-bodys are still certifiable in NSW. I know it was fairly common in the past for hot rodders to use jap ute chassis, sometimes including their driveline, with any combination of older bodies on top.
I realise Defender parts are somewhat more common, but they are expensive, harder to get parts for and I'm not as confident in modern LR parts reliability as I am with Toyota gear.

If you're still reading, congratulations on making it through that can of worms, thanks for having a squiz and TIA if anyone can shed some light on these questions.
Regards,
James

[Homestar]

I'm on my phone typing this, so I'll only answer a couple of questions now and I'll put some more stuff together when I'm back on my computer.

I never had any issue keeping a 202 cool in my old 2a with the standard series radiator - I had the inlet and outlet changed to suit the Holden engine and that was it.

There is a 5 speed conversion from a Nissan cabstar which was fairly popular back in the day and there are still examples around although they are a bit rare. These boxes are very strong and the conversion bolts straight up to the 202.

Not sure where you are getting your parts from, but I e always found Toyota parts fat more expensive that Land Rover bits personally but the Toyota stuff can be easier to find in places.

More later.

[EKjimmy]

Thanks for the reply.
I couldn't see why the 202 would need the v8 radiator unless the water pump is stuffed or something. Bit of extra cooling never hurts but I''d rather not have the front looking all deformed, lol.

Yes i've seen a bit about the nissan 5 speeds - I suppose if i could find one along with the conversion bits it would be fine, but I can't see myself being that lucky at least for a fair while.

I've seen certain parts for Defenders (it seems the easiest and most logical conversion would be defender running gear) and they seem to be pretty dear.
As much as i've always liked them I also saw a few landies with issues come through the doors at my old job. I'd imagine a decent defender drivetrain would cost much more than toyota gear too.

I'm open to ideas really, only weighing things up at the moment - it may never happen for any number of reasons. Whatever it would be just needs to be reliable, preferably not a complete frankenstein with bits and bobs from everything, and cost effective.

[Slunnie]

Mine has the standard LR 6cyl radiator in it. I cant comment too much on it overheating because I'm till rebuilding it.

Re transmission, have you considered the 202, 202/LandRover geaerbox adaptor, use the LT77 transmission in place of the series gearbox, and then the ashcroft adaptor to the Series transfer case (or retain the LT230 if you want the rest of the adjustments).
http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co...peed-kits.html

The Hilux gear will clash with Xmembers all through the vehicle. It will also need the steering converted because the axles are set up to sit under the springs, not over the springs. My experience is that the LC60 axles are a much much better solution than Hilux - I have done both.

[EKjimmy]

Hi Slunnie,
I've seen those conversion kits from ashcroft, would probably make it a breeze but pretty pricey, then add on the cost of a decent LR 5 speed. Going on Ashcroft's description I'd also be up for having tailshafts made or modified to fit. (Stupid me is hell bent on returning the grille to its proper place, purely a looks things - so no moving the engine forward and I think even with modifications to the front crossmember it might not move enough anyway)

The LC60 axles sound like an option - might have a bit of a google and see what I can find out.

Thanks mate

[gromit]

Re: Gearbox.... have you thought of a high speed transfer box on the std gearbox ?

I have one fitted to a shorty with a 2.4 Isuzu motor and it flies. 100kph + on the freeway but doesn't like 4th in a 60 zone. Combination of the higher ratio and the n/a diesel so I have to drop it into 3rd.
Low ratio is raised slightly.

Std gearbox isn't noisy over the Isuzu !


Colin

[67hardtop]

Hi Slunnie,
I've seen those conversion kits from ashcroft, would probably make it a breeze but pretty pricey, then add on the cost of a decent LR 5 speed. Going on Ashcroft's description I'd also be up for having tailshafts made or modified to fit. (Stupid me is hell bent on returning the grille to its proper place, purely a looks things - so no moving the engine forward and I think even with modifications to the front crossmember it might not move enough anyway)

The LC60 axles sound like an option - might have a bit of a google and see what I can find out.

Thanks mate

You could always throw the 202 out and fit a starfire. With 2 cyls less u would have plenty of room to put the gorilla back where it belongs and use a series rad to cool it. Mick88 on here has done that same thing. Starfire revs higher than a 202 and has only a little less power.
Just a cheaper thought for u.

Cheers Rod

Ps you havent said if this vehicle is a shorty (88") or a longey (109")??

Sent from my GT-I9507 using AULRO mobile app

[EKjimmy]

Hi Rod,
Yes the thought did cross my mind, although I can't think of the last time I saw a starfire for sale. Not a bad idea if a good runner comes along though.

Colin, does the high speed transfer idea involve a whole new transfer, or rebuilding the existing one with different gears? Another good option, although the main thing that irritates me is the gearbox whine itself

[Homestar]

The high speed transfer case involves modification of the existing case - or buying a modified case from Ashcrofts along with the gears. Any GOOD machine shop can do it, but I've heard of people botching it. It requires the intermediate shaft to be moved slightly. The Ashcroft kit gives you a 27% increase in high range, but doesn't increase your low range - or maybe a bit, I can't exactly recall, but it is a good option if you have a few more HP than standard - a bog standard 2.25 will struggle a bit, but a 202 or something similar would love it. It won't get rid of the whine from the box, but will drop it down a notch.

[russellrovers]

The high speed transfer case involves modification of the existing case - or buying a modified case from Ashcrofts along with the gears. Any GOOD machine shop can do it, but I've heard of people botching it. It requires the intermediate shaft to be moved slightly. The Ashcroft kit gives you a 27% increase in high range, but doesn't increase your low range - or maybe a bit, I can't exactly recall, but it is a good option if you have a few more HP than standard - a bog standard 2.25 will struggle a bit, but a 202 or something similar would love it. It won't get rid of the whine from the box, but will drop it down a notch.

just had a rover drive fitted at mr would not be without fantastic gear jim