Bugger Bugger Buggering clutch

[Clickweezippo]

Ok, so I've been having a bit of trouble with the clutch on my Td5 110 slipping

The clutch was replaced 6000kms ago but still slips, normally in 5th going up hill. I posted a thread about this about a month or so ago and a couple of people suggested replacing the master and slave cylinders.
I replaced these at the weekend, bled them and for about 3 days this seemed to of cured it. There was a little bit of sponginess at the top of the pedal, but I thought "that's ok, it'd bleed what little bit of air's left in it itself" which it has done, and now I have a bit of free play at the pedal before it takes up the clutch and a normal bite point. Is the 140mm distance between the pedal and the floor really that critical or is that just a comfort thing for the driver 'cos I can't see how this would impact on the operation of the clutch itself, if you have about 5mm of free play before it takes up, the clutch should be fully engaged no matter where the pedal sits (within reason) mine's about 150mm to the floor.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is, before it bled itself and the bite point was lower, the clutch seemed to preform perfectly with no slip, but as it's "readjusted" itself and seems to of bled that little bit of air out it's started to slip again. Is it worth bleeding it again or adjusting the pedal to the magical 140mm. This things driving me insane, all my waking hours (and dreams come to think of it) are revolving around Land Rover clutches.

The engine has a variable vane turbo fitted and I've got a map install into the ECU to match that, but surely the clutch should be able to cope with it. I think someone mentioned you can get an AP racing clutch that will fit them that will take a lot more power/towing abuse.

Please help as I'm pretty much out of idea's now, and that white jacket with the extra long sleeves and room with the rubber wall paper is fast approaching (unlike my Defender when the clutch is slipping).

Paul

[cuppabillytea]

Ok, so I've been having a bit of trouble with the clutch on my Td5 110 slipping

The clutch was replaced 6000kms ago but still slips, normally in 5th going up hill. I posted a thread about this about a month or so ago and a couple of people suggested replacing the master and slave cylinders.
I replaced these at the weekend, bled them and for about 3 days this seemed to of cured it. There was a little bit of sponginess at the top of the pedal, but I thought "that's ok, it'd bleed what little bit of air's left in it itself" which it has done, and now I have a bit of free play at the pedal before it takes up the clutch and a normal bite point. Is the 140mm distance between the pedal and the floor really that critical or is that just a comfort thing for the driver 'cos I can't see how this would impact on the operation of the clutch itself, if you have about 5mm of free play before it takes up, the clutch should be fully engaged no matter where the pedal sits (within reason) mine's about 150mm to the floor.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is, before it bled itself and the bite point was lower, the clutch seemed to preform perfectly with no slip, but as it's "readjusted" itself and seems to of bled that little bit of air out it's started to slip again. Is it worth bleeding it again or adjusting the pedal to the magical 140mm. This things driving me insane, all my waking hours (and dreams come to think of it) are revolving around Land Rover clutches.

The engine has a variable vane turbo fitted and I've got a map install into the ECU to match that, but surely the clutch should be able to cope with it. I think someone mentioned you can get an AP racing clutch that will fit them that will take a lot more power/towing abuse.

Please help as I'm pretty much out of idea's now, and that white jacket with the extra long sleeves and room with the rubber wall paper is fast approaching (unlike my Defender when the clutch is slipping).

Paul

The hydraulic parts of your clutch system act to release it, so if there was air in it you would find it more difficult to release it or slip it. If your hydraulic system is causing your clutch to slip it is possible that a piston is jamming, most likely in the slave cylinder. Presumably the mechanic who replaced your clutch , checked the face of the flywheel for glazing or oil smears.
Edit: I haven't seen a TD5 clutch slave but I'd imagine that the length of the actuator is adjustable. Have a look. If it is, adjust it back so there's a little bit of free play.

[Tins]

The hydraulic parts of your clutch system act to release it, so if there was air in it you would find it more difficult to release it or slip it. If your hydraulic system is causing your clutch to slip it is possible that a piston is jamming, most likely in the slave cylinder. Presumably the mechanic who replaced your clutch , checked the face of the flywheel for glazing or oil smears.

X2. Air in the system will make the clutch more difficult to release, it won't cause slip. Pedal height is important, but it's not the be all and end all. Pop under the car and see if there is freeplay between the slave cyl and the throwout arm. If there is then pedal height etc aren't the issue.

Slip is almost always caused by mechanical issues. Worn plates, broken springs, jammed mechanisms. One of the main things uverlooked during clutch replacement is the throwout arm it self, and the free movement of the release bearing on the nose sleeve. Your mech should have checked all of that. Take it back.

[Clickweezippo]

When the clutch was replaced they said the flywheel was replaced as well 'cos it had heat damage. I can only take their word for it, but on all accounts the garage that replaced it are held in high esteem by the Land Rovering community here in Perth.

Both the master and slave cylinders are brand new being only a week old and genuine parts, a TRW master and an AP slave, so you would think that the bores are good. I also pulled the old ones apart and they look pretty good too, but I changed them in that process of elimination.

All I want to do is cover all bases before setting about ripping the engine out. Do the easy stuff first (if there's such a thing as an easy job on a Landy).

Thanks for the reply

Paul

[Tins]

When the clutch was replaced they said the flywheel was replaced as well 'cos it had heat damage. I can only take their word for it, but on all accounts the garage that replaced it are held in high esteem by the Land Rovering community here in Perth.

Both the master and slave cylinders are brand new being only a week old and genuine parts, a TRW master and an AP slave, so you would think that the bores are good. I also pulled the old ones apart and they look pretty good too, but I changed them in that process of elimination.

All I want to do is cover all bases before setting about ripping the engine out. Do the easy stuff first (if there's such a thing as an easy job on a Landy).

Thanks for the reply

Paul

Not intending to impugn the rep of your mech, Paul. Mistakes, however, can happen. If they have a good rep I would go back to them and discuss the issue with them.

Oh, another cause of clutch slip of course is oil. Do you have any oil leaks, particularly at the back of the engine? ( Once again, no offence meant, but needs to be said ).

[bee utey]

It sounds like your master cylinder isn't fully released. Make sure that the pedal allows the master cylinder pushrod to go slack. Otherwise it blocks the fluid transfer port to the reservoir, and with operation and some heat the fluid expands and holds the clutch partly released. You may be able to release the master cylinder on the pedal box and fit a couple of shims under it if you don't wish to get your head under the dash. I've met this problem often enough to be aware of the perils of not checking the pushrod clearance on installation.

[djam1]

The hose in the hydraulic circuit hasn't swelled and blocked internally has it?

This will cause slippage as the clutch releases slowly or not at all

A TD5 clutch will handle a vnt and map I know mine does
If you drive like Jose not so much
If sensibly driven it seems ok

Sorry Jose

[Tins]

It sounds like your master cylinder isn't fully released. Make sure that the pedal allows the master cylinder pushrod to go slack. Otherwise it blocks the fluid transfer port to the reservoir, and with operation and some heat the fluid expands and holds the clutch partly released. You may be able to release the master cylinder on the pedal box and fit a couple of shims under it if you don't wish to get your head under the dash. I've met this problem often enough to be aware of the perils of not checking the pushrod clearance on installation.

Yep, but checking for some freeplay at the slave end should rule that out.

[Tins]

djam1 and bee utey both point to probably the only way a hydraulic issue could cause slip, and that is residual line pressure. If bee utey is right, then the pressure should be evident at the slave cyl. djam's one is harder to pick, as the pressure would not remain for long, and would be harder to pick unless you had two people.

[rangieman]

It sounds like your master cylinder isn't fully released. Make sure that the pedal allows the master cylinder pushrod to go slack. Otherwise it blocks the fluid transfer port to the reservoir, and with operation and some heat the fluid expands and holds the clutch partly released. You may be able to release the master cylinder on the pedal box and fit a couple of shims under it if you don't wish to get your head under the dash. I've met this problem often enough to be aware of the perils of not checking the pushrod clearance on installation.

With this in mind has anyone adjusted the shaft that goes from the clutch pedal to the clutch master cylinder ?
Or is it posible that if you changed the master cylinder that the shaft from the pedal to the cylinder is not seated properly