What D3 to buy?

[Arapiles]

Dear All

First post - I was looking at buying a D4 as I need three rows of seats and would also like to have off-road ability. The car would mostly be used for country trips, so comfort on dirt and gravel roads is important to us. I've test driven a number of vehicles from different manufacturers, including Pajero Sport and a Y62 Patrol, but the D4 ticks more boxes, in particular the third row leg room. As we will nearly always be using the third row to carry kids we will need to have the C pillar vents, which so far has meant looking at HSEs (as I haven't located any TDV6s or SEs with that option). The prices - for cars with between 29,000 kms and 58,000 kms - have been about $78,000 pre-trade in. I was speaking to a friend today who has a D3 with 300,000+ kms who is looking at getting a D5 when they come out, who pointed out that there should presumably be more D4s available once the D5s arrive and that the prices should drop a bit at that time. I've also seen a few pretty clean D3s around, so am considering buying a D3 now (in the $30,000 range) and looking at the D4s in a year or so. D5s would be out of my price range. So, my question is, what would you look out for in a D3? Service history of course, but what in your opinion is the better engine, as there seem to be some very low mileage 4.0 V6s around. Anything to be wary of generally? How many kms would you draw the line at? Would you buy a car that has had the engine entirely replaced (there's a V8 on the web with 20,000 kms on the engine but 170,000 kms overall)?

Thanks in advance

[The Mighty Range Rover]

4.0 - poverty pack engine. Least powerful, worst economy (yes even worse than the v8 by a sliver). But, because they are the worst engine, they are usually bought by non enthusiasts (so minimal offroad use) and you can normally get them for quite cheap. Offsets the extra cost of the diesel in terms of economy for a few years.
Not slow by any means, just slower than the V8 and not at all gutsy compared to the diesel. Being a ford engine it's quite reliable and most of the parts are easily replaced/cheap.

I got a 4.0 with 136,000 for 20k. Rear aircon. I overpaid a little but you can get an SE with rear aircon, just has to be spec.

V8 wasn't sold after 2006, meaning you didn't get the 2007 electronic improvements, fixing a lot of the inital glitches the cambus had (brake light sensor for example). You know the car has the upgraded electrics if you have auto up/down windows for the driver and the passenger in the front. It's a jaguar engine, so parts are more expensive.

The TDV6 is pretty much the same one used in the territory, and from what i have read are not as reliable as the other two engines but nothing particularly scary (just normal diesel stuff). I believe it was partially developed by Peugeot or citroen, tinkered with by ford and land rover.

I don't know enough about diesels for servicing and stuff but around the price you are looking, transmission fluid will have to be changed, diff fluids need to be changed (its not on the service guide but it really needs to be done) the suspension compressor will probably neeed to be replaced, control arm bushes will most likely be worn. Wheel bearings might be on their way out too. This is all just from my experience of course. Nothing else really to go wrong that i am aware of. I trawled through the forum before i bought one to learn as much as i can.

If you can push for the D4 the diesels are much improved as i understand it, especially the 3 litre engines. Don't know anything about the V8 but they aren't very common.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

[chuck]

The D4 SDV6 SE is a fantastic car & one advantage of getting a later model is that you could extend the factory warranty giving you an additional two years on what is left on the car.

The D3 is also a great car but early examples are now getting on to 12 years old so if you were to buy one and then have the worst happen you will be out of pocket a lot more.

Be interesting to see what resale will do with the D4 when the D5 is out there.

The D5 in the same spec as my D4 SDV6SE will cost a lot more so used prices may stay high until used D5's come on the market.

In many ways the D4 is a more practical car so be interesting to see if people hang on to them.

[Arapiles]

4.0 - poverty pack engine. Least powerful, worst economy (yes even worse than the v8 by a sliver). But, because they are the worst engine, they are usually bought by non enthusiasts (so minimal offroad use) and you can normally get them for quite cheap. Offsets the extra cost of the diesel in terms of economy for a few years.
Not slow by any means, just slower than the V8 and not at all gutsy compared to the diesel. Being a ford engine it's quite reliable and most of the parts are easily replaced/cheap.

I got a 4.0 with 136,000 for 20k. Rear aircon. I overpaid a little but you can get an SE with rear aircon, just has to be spec.

V8 wasn't sold after 2006, meaning you didn't get the 2007 electronic improvements, fixing a lot of the inital glitches the cambus had (brake light sensor for example). You know the car has the upgraded electrics if you have auto up/down windows for the driver and the passenger in the front. It's a jaguar engine, so parts are more expensive.

The TDV6 is pretty much the same one used in the territory, and from what i have read are not as reliable as the other two engines but nothing particularly scary (just normal diesel stuff). I believe it was partially developed by Peugeot or citroen, tinkered with by ford and land rover.

I don't know enough about diesels for servicing and stuff but around the price you are looking, transmission fluid will have to be changed, diff fluids need to be changed (its not on the service guide but it really needs to be done) the suspension compressor will probably neeed to be replaced, control arm bushes will most likely be worn. Wheel bearings might be on their way out too. This is all just from my experience of course. Nothing else really to go wrong that i am aware of. I trawled through the forum before i bought one to learn as much as i can.

If you can push for the D4 the diesels are much improved as i understand it, especially the 3 litre engines. Don't know anything about the V8 but they aren't very common.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Thanks, that's very helpful. There's a V6 on the web with just over 80,000 kms and, as you say, it does look like it has been used off-road.

[DieselLSE]

Dear All

>I need three rows of seats
>will need to have the C pillar vents
>The prices - for cars with between 29,000 kms and 58,000 kms - have been about $78,000 pre-trade in.

Thanks in advance

Hi Arapiles,

I would argue that you should keep on looking for a suitable D4 as I'm sure one will pop up to suit you. I bought my 2013 D4 privately a few months ago for $58k. My only requirement was it was NOT to have a DPF, NOT to have a black interior and be less than 60,000km. It had done 42,000km, had been fully serviced and came with the third row seats, rear aircon, reversing camera and upgraded sound system. The irony is that I've permanently removed the third row seats and don't need the rear aircon. I would have happily done without those features and preferred to option power seats, sunroof and the e-diff (although, in hindsight, I haven't missed the sunroof and the seats are extremely comfortable as is). I had looked at runout/demo/new cars but they all had dark colours and the DPF which I didn't want.
As your requirements are quite modest, I'd be surprised if a suitable car wasn't on the market somewhere in Australia today.
I'd certainly limit any search to a D4 as the 3.0litre sequential dual turbo and the 8 speed transmission are an absolute delight and from about 2012 the D4 was a very well sorted car.

[Tins]

Be interesting to see what resale will do with the D4 when the D5 is out there.

I'm curious about that. From what I've read, there are quite a number of D3/4 owners a bit disappointed with their initial impressions of the D5, especially as a tourer. Do you think that D4 prices may hold until the new Defender lobs? Or should I say if it lobs?

[veebs]

I'm curious about that. From what I've read, there are quite a number of D3/4 owners a bit disappointed with their initial impressions of the D5, especially as a tourer. Do you think that D4 prices may hold until the new Defender lobs? Or should I say if it lobs?

Same here - I'm hoping the D5 is intended to cater to the current D4 crowd that only use these cars as the stereotypical "Chelsea Tractor". The new Defender then to replace the smaller group of D4 owners and all the defender guys that go offroad and want the practicality/capability.

As for the original question, I'd also keep looking for the D4 model that suits, and don't be afraid of the earlier models. The 6-speed gearbox is sweet - as long as it's serviced. The 3.0 engines are the pick, bear in mind early D4 "3.0 TDV6" models are the twin turbo engine, later re-branded as SDV6 (our dealer didn't know this, and priced the car based on the single turbo engine). That said, the 2.7s are no slouch, and have the added benefit of running on 18" wheels without needing aftermarket GOE rims - so better tyre options.
At around 170,000km (and/or 7 years) the timing belt needs to be changed in the diesels, which is a fairly pricey endeavour (i believe around $2k, but don't quote me on that). If the car is around that age I'd be checking it's been done. At those km, the transmission should also need it's second service (around $1k).

[Disco-tastic]

I paid just under $20k for a 4.0 V6 D3 SE with 150k km almost 2 years ago. My only complaint is the range! 80L will get me about 450km around town, and about 650km on the freeway. And it takes premium so im paying anywhere from $1.30 - 1.60 on the central coast.

I'd buy another petrol D3 because they are so cheap, and the motor is the cheapest to service. But I do wish I could afford a D4, as they are much nicer inside!

I've had to replace a door lock, a coolant overflow bottle, the air compressor dryer, a rear wheel bearing, both front hubs, the front ARB bushes and the front Lower Control Arms rear bushes. Its cost me just under $2k for the "repairs", but its all stuff youd replace on a similar mileage diesel.

Things i don't need to worry about are turbos, EGR coking up my engine, timing belts, expnsive injectors and a high pressure fuel system, which can all be expensive when they go wrong.

Hope that helps and happy hunting!

[Arapiles]

The D4 SDV6 SE is a fantastic car & one advantage of getting a later model is that you could extend the factory warranty giving you an additional two years on what is left on the car.

The 2014 HSE I've been offered for roughly mid 60s after trade in includes them throwing in a 2 year extended factory warranty (they're an LR dealer and they're adamant that it is in fact a factory warranty).

In relation to what the D5 will do to D4 prices, a couple of years ago (2014) I was looking at an XC90 just prior to the new (significantly more expensive) model being released - so, the same situation as with the D4/D5. The argument at the time was that because of the jump in price, the old ones would hold their value. 2014 model XC90s with around 40,000 kms are currently going for around $45,000. Given that most were probably $70,000 - $80,000 when new, that's a drop of roughly 35 - 40% over two or three years. Apply that to the current D4s at roughly $100k new on-road, and retail in two or three year's time could be $60k - $65k, and less as a trade-in.

[gofish]

What about somewhere in between. I am guessing a D4 with the 2.7 would be cheaper. Still have the D4 goodies just not the 3.0. I have the 2.7 & have driven the 3.0 also. Coming from a D2 I am more than happy with the 2.7