injector cleaners.....

[DEFENDERZOOK]

[b]<span style="color:blue">ok....lurch has done over 70,000kms and i want to run some injector
cleaner through the fuel system.....

are there any dos or donts anyone here may have from experience......
there are so many brands to choose from i want to narrow down whats what
before i go and sit there and just stare at the shelf full of cleaners...... 8O


is there any i should stay away from.....?


2003 TD5.....</span>

[cookiesa]

Have a 300Tdi which I use the Flashlube cleaner in. Seems to do the job but a truckie I know still reckons the best way is a shot of premium unleaded every three months. (10% maximum)

[BigT]

Hey Zook
fuel doctor or chemtech injector cleaners are ok.
i give my 300 tdi a dose every 3 or 4 tank, dont know about the unleaded shot sounds like that could be dangarus 8O

[cookiesa]

Apparently Mercedes owners manuals recommend it! (Perhaps there is a Merc owner out there with a diesel who can confirm this.

[Rovernaut]

Originally posted by cookiesa
Have a 300Tdi which I use the Flashlube cleaner in. Seems to do the job but a truckie I know still reckons the best way is a shot of premium unleaded every three months. (10% maximum)

I googled and found this......

TDReprint
MIXING GASOLINE AND DIESEL
(Issue 26, pages 14 – 15)

My wise old mechanic who has worked on Mercedes for years told me that if I put one gallon regular gas to a diesel tankfull after about every four tanks that it would perform essentially the same job as a fuel injector cleaner at a fraction of the cost.

I would like to hear a technical opinion.

Bill Carson , e-mail

Bill, I’ll turn the answer to your request for a technical opinion over to Brian Kmetz. As a mechanical engineer, Brian’s daily task at work is to extract BTUs through oxidation from mass quantities of methane and fuel oils. Needless to say, he knows how the fuel “stuff” works. Brian writes:

We hear this one all the time. Another version is to add one gallon of gasoline to 20 gallons of diesel fuel as a cheap easy anti-gel for winter fuel. I’ll include alcohols in this discussion because a lot of guys add it instead of gasoline. Both fuels have the same detrimental effect on diesel fuel and are very close in weight and BTU content.

The mechanic meant well and probably never saw a fuel pump or injector failure due to improper blending of fuels. But that doesn’t mean one is not risking damage, even in small dosages.

Gasoline and alcohols hit diesel fuel right where it hurts the most. Those light thin fuels will lower the cetane number and lubricity. To explain how octane and cetane DO NOT work together, I’ll have to review more crude oil and fuel fundamentals.

The light distillates that gasolines are made from have a natural high-octane index. The middle distillates that diesel fuels come from have a high cetane index. The octane and cetane indexes are INVERSE scales. A fuel that has a high octane number has a low cetane number, and a high cetane fuel has a low octane number. Anything with a high octane rating will retard diesel fuel’s ability to ignite. That’s why each fuel has developed along with different types of engine designs and fuel delivery systems. Gasoline mixed in diesel fuel will inhibit combustion in a diesel engine and diesel fuel mixed in gasoline will ignite too soon in a gasoline engine.

A lot of old-time mechanics added some gasoline to diesel to supposedly clean the carbon deposits out of the cylinders. I have never read anything that said it worked. Gasoline will make the fuel burn hotter, and hotter burning fuels burn cleaner. That’s probably where the theory got started. In the older diesel engines that belched lots of black smoke even when properly tuned, the result of adding gasoline was probably more white smoke instead of black. This might lead one to believe the engine was running cleaner. Maybe so, probably not. Here’s what happens.

Gasoline will raise the combustion temperature. This might or might not reduce carbon deposits in the cylinder. This also might or might not overheat the injector nozzle enough to cause coking on the nozzle. That’s a clogged injector tip in layman’s terms. The fuel being injected is the only thing that cools the nozzle. Diesel fuel has a lower combustion temperature than gasoline. The fuel injectors depend on the fuel burning at the correct rate and temperature for a long life. If the combustion temperature is raised long enough, the gums and varnishes in gasoline will start to cook right in the fuel injector and turn into carbon. These microscopic carbon particles will abrade the nozzle. High combustion temperatures alone will shorten fuel injector life, gasoline makes the problem worse.

Gasoline and alcohols do have an anti-gel effect on diesel fuel, but these fuels are too thin and will hurt the lubricity. Alcohols work as a water dispersant in small amounts, but also attract water in large amounts. Diesel fuel is already hydrophilic (attracts water) so why add to the problem. The old timers got away with this because high sulfur diesel fuel had enough lubricity to take some thinning. Today’s low sulfur diesel fuels have adequate lubricity, but I wouldn’t put anything in the tank that would thin out the fuel, reduce lubricity, or attract water.

Opposites do not attract in this case. Use any of the diesel fuel additives available to clean out carbon deposits, not gasoline or alcohols.

While we’re on the subject of fuels, let’s discuss another common question. What is cetane?

Cetane is to diesel fuel what octane is to gasoline. It is a measure of the fuel’s ignition quality and performance. Cetane is actually a hydrocarbon chain, its real name is 1-hexadecane. It is written as C16H34, or a chain of 16 carbon atoms with 34 hydrogen atoms attached. All HC chains are also referred to as paraffins. Cetane is a hydrocarbon molecule that ignites very easily under compression, so it was assigned a rating of 100. All the hydrocarbons in diesel fuel are indexed to cetane as to how well they ignite under compression. There is very little actual cetane in diesel fuel.

All the hydrocarbons in diesel fuel have similar ignition characteristics as cetane. Cetane is abbreviated as CN. A very loose way to think about cetane is if the fuel has a CN of 45, then the fuel will ignite 45% as well as 100% cetane. Diesel engines run just fine with a CN between 45 to 50. There is no performance or emission advantage to keep raising the CN past 50. After that point the fuel’s performance hits a plateau.

Diesel at the pump can be found in two CN ranges: 40-46 for regular diesel, and 45-50 for premium. The minimum CN at the pump is supposed to be 45. The legal minimum cetane rating for #1 and #2 diesel is 40. Most diesel fuel leaves the refinery with a CN of around 42. The CN rating depends on the crude oil the fuel was refined from. It varies so much from tanker to tanker that a consistent CN rating is almost impossible. Distilling diesel is a crude process compared with making gasoline. Gasoline is more of a manufactured product with tighter standards so the octane rating is very consistent. But, the CN rating at the diesel pump can be anywhere from 42-46. That’s why there is almost never a sticker on a diesel fuel pump for CN.

Premium diesel has additives to improve CN and lubricity, detergents to clean the fuel injectors and minimize carbon deposits, water dispersant, and other additives depending on geographical and seasonal needs. More biocides added in the south in summer, more ant-gel added in the north in winter. Most retailers who sell premium diesel will have little brochures called POPs (Point of Purchase) at the counter explaining what’s in their fuel. Please don’t ask the poor clerk behind the counter any technical questions after reading this discussion. All they need to know how to do is sell you beer, milk, cigarettes, lottery tickets, and take your money.

Texaco and Amoco are two big names who sell premium diesel in limited markets. Amoco primarily sells its Premier to specialized industrial and agricultural markets. I cannot get either in my area. Most fuel retailers buy additives or buy treated fuel. In the Northern plains states, Koch is a well-known marketer of premium diesel. I buy it when I travel into Northern Wisconsin.

Because there are no legal standards for premium diesel yet, it is very hard to know if you are buying the good stuff. I have good news. An ASTM task force has drafted standards for premium diesel. When the new specifications are accepted, information will have to be posted on the fuel pump. Retailers will no longer be allowed to label cheap blended diesel as ‘premium.’ They will have separate pumps with clear labels on both informing the customer what is being sold. The marketing and labeling will be the same as with regular and premium gasoline. Retailers selling the real thing use this system now. Enforcement of all fuel standards is done at the state level in the USA.

Diesel fuel is an international commodity for industry. Therefore, you should be picky about where you fill up. Shop for price from a large volume retailer so you have the freshest fuel. That’s about the best advice I can give.

The 1994 legislation and reformulation of diesel fuel in North America is due to an international effort for lower emissions. Cleaner diesel emission laws are on the way. Diesel fuel is going to be reformulated into a cleaner fuel in general. Without getting too technical (this is over-simplified and very generalized), diesel fuel for the most part is made up of two different hydrocarbon families: paraffins and aromatics. The paraffins have a naturally high cetane index, burn clean, but cause the annoying gel problem in winter. The aromatics have a naturally high lubricity, low cetane index, and cause a lot of diesel emissions and soot. Reformulated diesel will have a higher paraffin content, higher cetane number, and a much lower aromatic and sulfur content. It will also be more prone to jelling and have a lower lubricity. Big oil is working on improved additives as I type this.

The reason nothing has happened yet is because of infighting in the EPA on its new Tier II Emissions standards for gasoline and diesel. Ultra-clean technology for gasoline and diesel engines is almost ready to go, but the refiners have to lower the sulfur level drastically in both fuels. The EPA should formally set something by year 2000.

Brian Kmetz

[DEFENDERZOOK]

<span style="color:blue">well.....that was an interesting read......



i wasnt gonna use petrol......ive heard on here that petrol will ruin the
diesel fuel system on this type of engine....it will ruin fuel lines and injectors
and even the pump......


i sure as hell cant afford to experiment....

i was wondering if there was a brand of injector cleaner that has been used on the TD5 engine that i could get some feed back on.....

there are heaps of cleaners in the shops......some good some not so good....
apparently the TD5 is a bit fussier than the 200 and 300 tdi......</span>

[duff]

G'day,
I use the Morey's diesel additive, it does the clean, the lube, the biocide, and the cetane increase,,,,, It sounds a bit like an automative snake oil really.

It is an old and reputable company and it seems to keep my beast doing all the right things.. Mind you it could just be coloured oil for all I know,,, 8O having always used it I have nothing to compare it to.

FROM THEIR WEB SITE(of course they will say its the best thing about :roll: ,, but I just put it up for the details. )http://www.moreyoil.co.nz/

MOREY'S® DIESEL SMOKE KILLER
Description:
This outstanding product is designed to reduce diesel smoke, improve fuel injection, provide anti-wear, enhance fuel economy and ensure engine cleanliness and fuel stability. Also contains biocidal properties.

MOREY’S® DIESEL SMOKE KILLER FUEL CONDITIONER is a premium diesel fuel conditioner formulated to improve lubricity, injector cleanliness, power, fuel economy and reduce emissions and smoke.

MOREY’S® DIESEL SMOKE KILLER FUEL CONDITIONER increases cetane up to (5) points
During the combustion process deposits form on pistons, rings and valves reducing the engine’s ability to use fuel efficiently. These deposits cause an uneven and incomplete burn, resulting in sticking rings and accelerated engine wear. MOREY’S® DIESEL SMOKE KILLER removes these deposits returning components to a more efficient condition allowing the engine to function properly.

MOREY’S® DIESEL SMOKE KILLER through its unique combination of temperature stability, tenacity to metal surfaces and low coefficient of friction, forms a film between pistons and cylinder walls, sealing the combustion chamber. Compression is increased, friction reduced and engine efficiency improved.

Features:
Cleans dirty injectors and keeps them clean • Increases horsepower by up to 10% • Improves fuel economy to more than pay for itself • Reduces emissions and smoke • Reduces rust and corrosion • Makes fuel filters last longer • Reduces injector scuffing • Increases fuel system life • Does not raise sulphur or aromatic content • Keeps seals soft and pliable • Fights diesel bug

Most effective under loaded conditions and in engines in a good state of repair.

View the Safety Datasheet relating to this product

View the Technical Information relating to this product


Make an Enquiry

SIDE NOTE.. Have a look at some of the brands bottles, they actually admit the simplicity of alot of these products. They boast "uses jet fuel" cause it sounds cool.
Jet fuel is closely related to diesel, 8) it does in small amounts most the things an additive will . Look up the specs of AVTUR and compare it to diesel. The cetane , the biocide is there. but it runs fairly dry without added lubricant.
You can run your earlier diesels on pure Avtur all day every day, I know of current model hiluxes and couriers that do it for year after year. I wont run the TD5 on it,, they seem very susceptable to fuel system problems.

[adm333]

At some point someone is going to mention Cost Effective Maintenance so it might as well be me.

Several threads have run in the past talking about these products.

www.costeffective.com.au

The fuel system / injector cleaner is called CleanPower and is a concentrated additive.

I have used it in my 3.9L V8 with good results.

Obviuosly the TD5 is a different story, so maybe someone here has tried it ???

Dave

[Steinzy]

I have found the Nulon products work fantasticly in my petrol so might be worth a shot to see if they have one for diesel

[rick130]

Redline's diesel fuel treatments (85-Plus, RL 2 and RL 3) have been tested over millions of miles, are US EPA approved, and use an ashless ester (synthetic oil) for increased lubrication of the pump, injectors and upper cylinder. Click here for RL2 PDS Click here for 85-Plus PDS
I've been using them for years at a maintenance rate in the Tdi and 4.2 turbo Pootrol, both are now in the 180,000km range and neither has injector or pump issues (touch wood) First application was a bottle in each tank (they were both blowing smoke, the Patrol white stuff on start up and it was running roughly), that was about 60/70,000 km ago in both. They've both been fine since.

BP also have an injector cleaner called Diesel Go which is relatively cheap and it comes from one of the top fuel refiners. ShaunP swears by it, and I'm using it at the moment. (Haven't been to the big smoke to get some RL2)

You can get Redline stuff from Coventry Auto Parts around Sydney.