D240 v P400

[Delewis]

G’day all,

First time poster (aside from the introductions thread). I freely admit I’m completely new to Land Rovers and have never owned a 4WD. However, I have been going outback and off road for years on motorbikes. Now I want to be able to take the family on weekenders and multi-week trips around Oz. I don’t need to be able to do rugged off-road driving or rock crawling.

As a one car (and two motorbike) family, the final say is always going to be with my wife – she does most of the urban driving, she is fussy (discerning?) about the way a car looks and drives, and flatly refuses to consider a Japanese or American 4WD. One thing we have always agreed on is that the Discos (especially the later models) look great and appealingly utilitarian. So when the new Defender demos arrived in Melbourne, we went for a test drive. Took about 1 minute for us to decide we loved the whole package. I’m not usually impulsive, but when my wife agrees to open the purse to buy an awesome new toy, I’m not going to stand in her way. I would normally thoroughly research before committing. This time, I just hit the buy button. We chose the D240 with some minor extras. Delivery in Feb 2021.

Having now had the luxury of doing some pretty extensive ‘research’, I’m now wondering if the D240 is the right engine for our use. The issues created by pollution control measures for diesels of many brands seem to outweigh the benefits depending on usage. I opted for the diesel as I had assumed (not having owned a diesel) that it would be simpler, more efficient, possibly more reliable and with a longer lifespan. Reliability and longevity are the most important criteria to me. However, it seems that the diesel engines are hampered by DPF issues (I know this is not isolated to Land Rovers) and require periodic regeneration cycles to keep it clear, etc. This is just not practical for a vehicle which will be overwhelmingly used for short urban trips. Then there are the reports of high metallic contamination in the oil.

I am therefore considering changing the order to a P400 which sounds a lot more exciting performance wise! In doing so, I would be capitulating on my long held commitment to never buy a hybrid (albeit a ‘mild hybrid’) as I regard it as introducing unnecessary complexity and weight to a vehicle. And it is a transitional technology. However, it seems to be the better option for what we’re looking for.

I hope I am not putting anyone’s noses out of joint – and if I’m wrong in any of my assumptions, I would appreciate being corrected. I’m keen to learn as much as possible from a mechanical/technical point of view about the Land Rovers. I prefer to purchase vehicles that offer something distinctive and appealing in style and/or performance and accept some idiosyncrasies. I am also very willing to mod where possible to overcome known flaws – as long as the warranty isn’t voided!

I would be interested in any feedback on the diesel v petrol dilemma.

[jon3950]

Firstly welcome to the forum and the world of land Rovers. I hope your surviving the lockdown.

I'm sure the P400 would be the better drive around town, but if you are considering remote touring there are two factors to consider that to me come out in favour of the diesel.

Namely the fuel range when off-road and the tyre/rim packages available. The fact that you can't (at least as yet) fit 18" rims to the P400 would be a deal breaker for me.

Cheers,
Jon

[DiscoMick]

Personally, I would stick with the diesel.
DPF issues are easily overcome by going for a drive to get it hot enough for burn off.
Diesel is a lot more economical than petrol for touring and towing.
These are very advanced engines and well-proven now after several years of use.

[100inch]

Two of our everyday cars are (recent) diesel models and both perform flawless. However, we are hardly using them for runs under 30min.
If your Defender get primarily/ often used for 10-15 min trips I would definitely consider the P400. Saying that you may use it on a long trip every weekend so that would definitely help. Interesting that the dealer hasn't discussed this with you. Mine (Malvern) definitely advises on petrol engines if primarily used for short journey use. m

[101RRS]

So what are the issues with using modern high speed diesels for short trips? My older diesel freelander and my now 13 yo RRS is used mainly for short commutes and I have had no issues other than charging the battery from time to time but that applies equally to a petrol. Likewise wear because of use on cold engines etc are likely equally on both type of engines.

Now my vehicle does not have a DPF but from what little I know of them, the LR versions are pretty trouble free IF IF IF you read the instructions on their maintenance (like other aspects of servicing) and abide by them - doesn't the car tell you it needs a burn off if it has not been able to be done in normal driving conditions?

With over 400,000km in my two diesels I have not had any "commute" specific issues - but then my cars are maintained on time in accordance with the book (modified by common sense)

Cheers

Garry

[grey_ghost]

Welcome aboard and a really good question there. In short I believe the answer is "if only doing short trips, but a petrol as you won't have potential DPF issues".

As you say - most brands suffer from DPF issues, and with the diesel you also need to fill up your "adblue". While adblue isn't the end of the world - it's just another thing that you need to remember to do.

I myself have had mixed results with modern diesel vehicles. I had a VW Tiguan that at $150K had DPF issues, and cost $5k to fix because it was an engine out job.

However I have done 185k so far in my diesel Skoda without any issues (boy I hope that I don't jinx myself).

My normal daily commute is 75 minutes each way at a minimum, so in theory 10 times a week I should be driving enough to prevent any DPF issues - but that didn't make a difference with the VW. (And arguably they are most likely either identical engines or very similar).

One other thing that I have heard said is: "If you want to tow heavy loads, definitely go the diesel, otherwise stick with the petrol"

I am considering a new Defender myself and can honestly say - I don't tow, so am seriously considering the petrol.. But that's down to my personal choice.

It's going to be a brilliant car whatever you decide you lucky bugger!

Cheers,
GG.

PS - Living in Melbourne and not being able to drive more than 5 kms at the moment, I do wonder how many diesel vehicles might have issues in 6 months time...

[INter674]

Petrol!
.
..diesels suck in cars...only good for trucks and tractors IMHO.

You will love the power and towing ease too.

It has more power than our SCD4...and lighter too.

A total rocket ship🤤

Spoil yourself like we did and appreciate the power and I suspect the better reliability long term.

[Gregz]

I understand (but can't recall where I read it) that the new diesel ingenium engines as built into the defender are a close-coupled design, which means there should be very little dpf issues.
My diesel is the Ford engine, which is the medium coupled design, but pre ad-blue. It has done 46k km now and never had an issue. I always disable the stop/start when I start the car so as to ensure the car gets time to regen if required - not sure it actually helps though. I mainly do shorter trips with occasional (maybe once a month) longer trips. I have noticed a burning smell coming from the car on occasions, which I put down to the DPF burn doing its thing - maybe occurs once every few weeks.
The only thing that I don't like about the diesel is the turbo lag, which is most prominent when coasting to a stop and then trying to accelerate away, e.g. at roundabouts. The mild hybrid engines, I understand, eliminate any lag. If I was buying now I would buy the P400 for that reason alone. However newer diesel engines are on the way with the mild hybrid, and I think that would be my pick.

[zilch]

However newer diesel engines are on the way with the mild hybrid, and I think that would be my pick.

Straight six in D250, D300 and potentially D350 MHEV format would have been my first choice if
they had been released within the initial launch period. To impatient to wait, so P400 it is

[Delewis]

Appreciate the replies and advice!

I spoke with a very helpful dealer in Sydney (as Melbourne is still shut!) and salesperson says she always advises customers to go for the petrol if used for primarily short urban trips. I then emailed the sales guy dealing with my order. He provided a new quote and almost apologetically advised that the premium of the petrol over the diesel is about $20k! That is a pretty hefty difference which could go to touring accessories. Either option is obviously a great option. Will go and consult with Mrs Delewis...