Puma or Perentie?

[TM86]

Hi All,
I have owned my '09 Puma (221 000 km) for about 6 months now and absolutely love it. It is my daily drive, though I don't drive too far in it on most drives (living 10 minutes from work). I have taken it off-road to go camping a few times with my son, too, so using it for what it was bought for. Since owning it I have replaced the radiator and intercooler hoses and recently took it to a Landy specialist for a service (new rear brake discs & pads, plus work done on hubs, MAF sensor, etc.). I was a little disheartened, though, to be given a list of jobs that needed doing over the next 2 - 3 years (front axle re-build, drive belt & various pulleys / tensioner replacement, brake lines, rear axles and transfer case rebuild). Despite not having done these jobs before, I am somewhat confident in managing many of them myself, though the OE/M parts add up (in addition to annual servicing costs, or labour for the bigger jobs like a t/c refurb). Needless to say, my wife is not too happy about this, either.

The way I see it, I have two options:

a) Keep the Puma, budget for the jobs over the next three years and hope that nothing else major (ie. engine, clutch, gearbox, etc.) occurs that ensures my vehicle requires $4000 per year of maintenance after the third year.

b) Sell the Puma and buy a Perentie that doesn't require all of those jobs immediately (or at least the jobs are spaced out to 5-10 years and not costing $4000 annually to maintain).

I have been told by the LR specialist that I would be exchanging comfort (eg. air-con, which is currently not working anyway, and the ability to have a conversation with passengers) for a far more robust, yet rugged, engine / vehicle.

I would be appreciative if anyone has faced a similar dilemma or has experienced both Land Rovers and has advice / warnings.

Thank you in advance!

Travis

[shack]

I think you might be fooling yourself if you think the Perentie will be much cheaper to keep running.

Maybe a little cheaper, but it's a lot more agricultural ( I really should object to that word being used in a negative way).

Also good to note that conversation in cars only leads to arguments, so I'd leave that out of the equation!

[prelude]

I was never a fan of the Puma, so we should keep that in mind (the engine, not the car). Then again, a number of overlanders have run these engines for many years without too much trouble. Although, a recent pair of visitors needed to replace the entire engine.

Anyway I think most landrovers need an amount of maintenance after a large number of miles/km's. The perentie will also need som TLC, certainly because it is a lot older.

What I was wondering, was the car priced well? Perhaps the required maintenance was taken out of the asking price...

-P

[TM86]

Thanks Shack and Prelude. I paid $31 000 for the Puma, but wasn't made aware of the potential jobs coming up. Perhaps that influenced the cost? It seemed fairly reasonable considering the age / kms, but perhaps I was naive? Anyhow, I'm not having a dig at the seller; it's buyer beware after all.

I'm ok with maintaining a Land Rover, though it would be nice to have it in a condition where such big jobs have already been sorted. One of my big fears is getting on top of the Puma's needs and then the engine suddenly dying. The Perentie engine is far more appealing to me due to its reputation as being far more robust and long-lasting. I figured I could buy a Perentie that had been well-maintained for a similar price to the Puma, but mostly am a little worried that my wife and daughter would go from a feeling of reluctance in driving longer than 20 minutes to flat-out mutiny!

Also good to note that conversation in cars only leads to arguments, so I'd leave that out of the equation!

Yes, fair point !

[JDNSW]

I don't really have the necessary experience, but my experience might be useful. While not a Perentie, my 1986 110 County is similar in many ways. I have owned it for a little over thirty years, and barring a few issues in the first couple of years, has had no really large expenses, and has now done just over 715,000km. The engine is getting a little tired, but still uses no oil between changes. I have done almost all the work on it myself. The engine has never had the head off, but has had some oil seals and gaskets replaced. Injectors were overhauled once, New steering box, a couple of clutch plated (oil seals!).

Clutch master and slaves, brake master, two sets front pads, four sets rear shoes, one set drums. One drive flange (also needs new half axle waiting to be installed).

Apart from these it has been oil and filters, tyres, one muffler, and a few other minor bits and pieces. Plus a lot of mostly minor body stuff such as reupholster rear seats, new (S/H) front seats, carpets replaced with rubber etc.

And in 2018, had no hesitation in driving to Perth and back)

[TM86]

I don't really have the necessary experience, but my experience might be useful. While not a Perentie, my 1986 110 County is similar in many ways. I have owned it for a little over thirty years, and barring a few issues in the first couple of years, has had no really large expenses, and has now done just over 715,000km. The engine is getting a little tired, but still uses no oil between changes. I have done almost all the work on it myself. The engine has never had the head off, but has had some oil seals and gaskets replaced. Injectors were overhauled once, New steering box, a couple of clutch plated (oil seals!).

Clutch master and slaves, brake master, two sets front pads, four sets rear shoes, one set drums. One drive flange (also needs new half axle waiting to be installed).

Apart from these it has been oil and filters, tyres, one muffler, and a few other minor bits and pieces. Plus a lot of mostly minor body stuff such as reupholster rear seats, new (S/H) front seats, carpets replaced with rubber etc.

And in 2018, had no hesitation in driving to Perth and back)

Thanks! That does help a lot.

I test drove one today and it was not as noisy as I expected, nor was it uncomfortable. If I can find the right one, I am leaning towards the swap. Just need to convince the wife!

[steveG]

I haven't owned a Perentie, but have the same Isuzu engine in a 110 County, and a 120. I love them, but IMO the engine needs a turbo to see its full potential in terms of driveability.
As soon as you do a turbo you're pretty soon into a clutch replacement/upgrade (if you didn't do it at the same time), and depending on your personality - a bunch of other associated mods.
If you don't want to go down that road then NEVER drive one with a turbo and you won't know what you're missing.

I haven't owned a Puma either, but eldest daughter has one that I've done a fair bit of work on, and I also drove one (actually 2 but that's another story) for about 12K kms touring around southern Africa in 2015. Much less fatigue than my Isuzu county on longer transits, and the aircon was useful.

If you're getting push back from your wife and daughter about traveling in the Puma, then realistically you're going to get a LOT more with the Perentie. Solution to that is to replace all 3 - wife, daughter and Puma, but that will cost more than $4K/year maintenance so likely not practical.

Not poking at the Indy that did your servicing as its their job to point out things about your vehicle, but IMO there can be a large time/km difference between something benefiting from an overhaul/replacement and it becoming a necessity.
Obviously things that are safety related, or are likely to fail and leave you immobile need to be actioned promptly - but things like a bit of wear in axle and drive flange splines can be managed effectively for many kms simply by cleaning and lubing them regularly. If they are worn to the point where they are likely to fail then that's obviously not the appropriate solution.
Along the same lines, also be aware that there are potentially maintenance options for the likes of the transfer case rather than just a straight overhaul/replacement. Commercially, its normally not worthwhile for a business to go that route simply from a comeback and labour cost perspective, so they will almost always recommend full replacement.

My recommendation at this point would be to keep the Puma, and focus on anything critical that needs to be done eg the gearbox-transfer adapter shaft if it hasn't already been done, and likely clutch/slave etc while its apart. Definitely get someone else to do that for you. While its not a complex job, I can tell you from experience that its not one for a newbie to take on with a couple of spanners and a trolley jack on the shed floor.
Also work on the wife/daughter in regards to their reluctance. Getting the a/c fixed will likely help with that.

Don't rule out an Isuzu county instead of a Perentie though. Wagon body, same engine and drivetrain (possibly different gearbox depending on year).

Good luck with whatever you choose!!

Steve

[Tombie]

Hi All,
I have owned my '09 Puma (221 000 km) for about 6 months now and absolutely love it. It is my daily drive, though I don't drive too far in it on most drives (living 10 minutes from work). I have taken it off-road to go camping a few times with my son, too, so using it for what it was bought for. Since owning it I have replaced the radiator and intercooler hoses and recently took it to a Landy specialist for a service (new rear brake discs & pads, plus work done on hubs, MAF sensor, etc.). I was a little disheartened, though, to be given a list of jobs that needed doing over the next 2 - 3 years (front axle re-build, drive belt & various pulleys / tensioner replacement, brake lines, rear axles and transfer case rebuild). Despite not having done these jobs before, I am somewhat confident in managing many of them myself, though the OE/M parts add up (in addition to annual servicing costs, or labour for the bigger jobs like a t/c refurb). Needless to say, my wife is not too happy about this, either.

The way I see it, I have two options:

a) Keep the Puma, budget for the jobs over the next three years and hope that nothing else major (ie. engine, clutch, gearbox, etc.) occurs that ensures my vehicle requires $4000 per year of maintenance after the third year.

b) Sell the Puma and buy a Perentie that doesn't require all of those jobs immediately (or at least the jobs are spaced out to 5-10 years and not costing $4000 annually to maintain).

I have been told by the LR specialist that I would be exchanging comfort (eg. air-con, which is currently not working anyway, and the ability to have a conversation with passengers) for a far more robust, yet rugged, engine / vehicle.

I would be appreciative if anyone has faced a similar dilemma or has experienced both Land Rovers and has advice / warnings.

Thank you in advance!

Travis

Travis

Brake lines are considered a service item due to vehicle age - all vehicles getting on should have them replaced... hence they were mentioned in your service.

Drive belts and pulleys - again an age thing....

Rebuilds of diffs, TC etc - are they making strange noises and/or showing heaps of metal in the oil when drained? If not, fresh oil and keep an eye on them.


Reality is, its a 16 year old vehicle, its going to need some loving to get it back to "as new"

[dero]

I would strongly advise you to drive a perentie first , make sure you appreciate the type of vehicle it is , very different to a Puma .

[JDNSW]

Yes, definitely!