Swivel bearings for lighter steering

[Panda]

Have SEVERE swivel housing leak on driver's side (I'm talking pools of oil). Worried about too much oil being lost from the diff so, after our numerous attemps to rectify, have put it in to have my Landie expert see if he can come up with a solution. (Also owing to the fact my better half has decided to trek half way across the world & want her fit for Easter!).

As an aside, he recommended bearings which they have custom made which apparently make the steering a lot lighter. Don't know if it's fitting to mention the garage or not, however, they are a very reputable Land Rover/four wheel drive specialist. They're not that expensive so have decided to buy them.

Just wondering if anyone's had any experience with these, as I had never heard of them before.

Thanks.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Have heard of someone machining the housing to put a 0 degree camber on the stub axles for radial tyres but not bearings that do the same.

Diana

[JDNSW]

Never heard of them - wheel bearings would not affect the steering load, so I suppose we are talking about swivel bearings. Replacing the top swivel bush with a taper roller bearing would lighten the steering but is likely to lead to wheel shimmy unless everything else is spot on. And I doubt it would lighten it all that much anyway, as you still have the deliberate friction in the relay. (in fact I think I would prefer to reduce friction there rather than the kingpin anyway)

Severe swivel housing leak suggests one or more of :-

1. Swivel bush worn allowing seal to move away from the ball
2. Ball pitted
3. Seal worn
4. Seal leaking between the outside of it and the housing either loose or poor installation or damaged retainer)

But wheel bearings are not a cause.

John

[Panda]

Sorry John, swivel bearings would be the ones, not wheel bearings as I previously said. I thought they were one & the same.

I'm showing my ignorance here, so appreciate the advice. Could you explain the "wheel shimmy" and "friction in relay" in layman's terms?

Thanks

Never heard of them - wheel bearings would not affect the steering load, so I suppose we are talking about swivel bearings. Replacing the top swivel bush with a taper roller bearing would lighten the steering but is likely to lead to wheel shimmy unless everything else is spot on. And I doubt it would lighten it all that much anyway, as you still have the deliberate friction in the relay. (in fact I think I would prefer to reduce friction there rather than the kingpin anyway)

Severe swivel housing leak suggests one or more of :-

1. Swivel bush worn allowing seal to move away from the ball
2. Ball pitted
3. Seal worn
4. Seal leaking between the outside of it and the housing either loose or poor installation or damaged retainer)

But wheel bearings are not a cause.

John

[JDNSW]

Sorry John, swivel bearings would be the ones, not wheel bearings as I previously said. I thought they were one & the same.

I'm showing my ignorance here, so appreciate the advice. Could you explain the "wheel shimmy" and "friction in relay" in layman's terms?

Thanks

Wheel Shimmy. This is the tendency for steering to shake from side to side several times after hitting a bump. If very bad, it can come on without a bump, suddenly at a particular speed. It can vary from slightly annoying to dangerous. It is caused when steering deflection allowed by free play or flex is opposed by the caster action of the steering, and this action overshoots and then operates in the opposite direction.
Although initiated by slight wheel imbalance and allowed by free play in the steering, it is prevented by damping. This is provided at three points in the steering system; At the swivels, at the relay unit, and by the steering damper (which was optional on all series Landrovers although fitted to all S3s I have seen). At the swivel, damping is provided by friction from the seal on the ball and by the use of a fibre bush and thrust washer on the top swivel bearing (the vehicle weight is carried on the bottom bearing). Shimmy is more likely with changes to steering geometry such as moving the tyre centre out by fitting wider tyres, or by raising the suspension, or by sagged springs, or with any reduction in the original damping. Wheel shimmy was common with leaf spring and beam axles from the start of motoring, and was commonly remedied by adjusting the caster angle with wedges. The advantage of the damping right at the swivel bearings is that it is before any possible free play or flex (for example any wear in the drag link ends, sideways flex in the springs or bushes, and as far as the steering damper is concerned, flex or wear in its bushes).

Friction in relay. The steering relay is the pivot that changes fore and aft movement (of the steering rod connected to the steering box) into crossways movement. It comprises a vertical shaft which is held in two fibre bushes on tapered journals, held apart by a powerful spring, ensuring constant friction and freedom from free play. Except in cases of extreme wear this provides the major friction in the steering.

Hope this helps,

John

[Bigbjorn]

the steering damper (which was optional on all series Landrovers although fitted to all S3s I have seen

John

My Series III Salesman's Manual says the steering damper was standard equipment on the 109 One Ton, optional equipment in the home market, and fitted as standard equipment in many export territories. Was standard equipment on all Australian assembled Series III.

Interestingly, the SeriesIII 109 cab and chassis with dropside body, and 109 Truck Cab and Hardtops were sold here as having a carrying capacity of one ton, not one tonne, which qualified them for sale to primary producers sales tax exempt. A carrying capacity "in excess of one tonne" was part of the requirement. Other requirements were no more than three seats in one row, and not more than two doors. The vehicle was required to be "primarily of design and construction as a goods carrying vehicle". There were other (financial) requirements checked by the tax office when the buyer lodged an application for exemption.

[Panda]

Thanks for that John, that was extremely interesting & helpful. Don't suppose you were thinking of having a "technical Series day" out your way, maybe over a long weekend?? One day technical, one day driving & one day recoverying & repairing? If you ever do, count me in!

Wheel Shimmy. This is the tendency for steering to shake from side to side several times after hitting a bump. If very bad, it can come on without a bump, suddenly at a particular speed. It can vary from slightly annoying to dangerous. It is caused when steering deflection allowed by free play or flex is opposed by the caster action of the steering, and this action overshoots and then operates in the opposite direction.
Although initiated by slight wheel imbalance and allowed by free play in the steering, it is prevented by damping. This is provided at three points in the steering system; At the swivels, at the relay unit, and by the steering damper (which was optional on all series Landrovers although fitted to all S3s I have seen). At the swivel, damping is provided by friction from the seal on the ball and by the use of a fibre bush and thrust washer on the top swivel bearing (the vehicle weight is carried on the bottom bearing). Shimmy is more likely with changes to steering geometry such as moving the tyre centre out by fitting wider tyres, or by raising the suspension, or by sagged springs, or with any reduction in the original damping. Wheel shimmy was common with leaf spring and beam axles from the start of motoring, and was commonly remedied by adjusting the caster angle with wedges. The advantage of the damping right at the swivel bearings is that it is before any possible free play or flex (for example any wear in the drag link ends, sideways flex in the springs or bushes, and as far as the steering damper is concerned, flex or wear in its bushes).

Friction in relay. The steering relay is the pivot that changes fore and aft movement (of the steering rod connected to the steering box) into crossways movement. It comprises a vertical shaft which is held in two fibre bushes on tapered journals, held apart by a powerful spring, ensuring constant friction and freedom from free play. Except in cases of extreme wear this provides the major friction in the steering.

Hope this helps,

John

[isuzurover]

I know a few people in the Brisbane LR club who did the same conversion - without any wheel shimmy problems.

IMHO though, I think the bush spreads the load better. You often find that the bottom bearing has brinnelled/pitted from sitting in the straight ahead position most of the time...

[p38arover]

Thanks for that John, that was extremely interesting & helpful. Don't suppose you were thinking of having a "technical Series day" out your way, maybe over a long weekend?? One day technical, one day driving & one day recoverying & repairing? If you ever do, count me in!

Umm, do you know the dress code for John's property?

[Panda]

ummm, no. Should it be something I should know?
Does he dress in aluminium panels & camo soft tops made for dual purpose, with an inverted headlight as a hat? And maybe a stubb axle as a septre?

Perhaps we need some pics, pics, pics!

Umm, do you know the dress code for John's property?