so, im thinking of buyin a defender

[nibbsy]

im looking at buying a wagon type 4wd, a defender has popped up on the radar as well as a 80/100 series cruiser or GQ/GU patrol. No older than a 95 model really.
here come some ideas and questions:
ive heard the TD5 (i think its called) is the engine to look for, true or not?

how strong are the mechanical bits and pieces, do they take some punishment before throwing in the towel?

what are they like on long trips, they look very simple and i know they are, what are the seats like and do they all come with with AC and power steering?

do they develop many rattles and bangs as the km pile on, also what is n acceptable amount of km on a 2nd hand one?

i would be looking to raise it up 2 or so inches, will this fit 33" tyres or how high do they need to go up to fit them. How wide can a tyre go without major modifications too.

is there plenty of aftermarket gear like bars, roof racks, drawers, suspension etc as that can be a big draw card to the nissan and toyota.

that is all i can think of right now, if anyone has any other helpful info of the pros and cons of defenders it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks heaps.
nibbsy

[Mick-Kelly]

For me a 300tdi or better yet a 200tdi would be the engines to go for. Too much electrickery in the td5. They are basic but honest and you cant kill em with a big stick. Heaps of aftermarket accesories available. Bear in mind if you buy a fender you are buying a 4WD, not a glorified car like some of the other marques believe they should be. You'll never lack for credibility.

[Diego Luego]

Defenders start where other 4WD's end. They are incredibly able without adding any fancy stuff.

Unless you intend to really push the limits you do not need a lift kit. I have driven over 1 million kms (probably more like 2 million) in various landrovers and never needed any more articulation or clearance than standard. Unless you have seen it first hand you won't believe the articulation. Don't forget that if you increase the size of the wheels you put more stress on everything (especially the drive train and the steering) and are more likely to break something. Having said that definitely buy tyres for the job you have in mind.

I am not a purist and quite like the traction control and abs that the xtremes have. Lots of bloggers here on AULRO have a different opinion though.

The air conditioner is fairly crap until the 2007 model. The seating sort of grows on you, I never get a backache in a Defender, even though they are tiny, upright and not very adjustable. I found we often drove 600 to 700km a day towing a heavy trailer. The fuel economy of the TD5 is good, most of us average 10L/100km, more if we take it easy.

I miss my Defender.

[Aaron]

How many people do you intend to carry? The rear seats lack leg room.

As for rattles etc.... Well, its not as quiet as a luxury sedan :P (they're pretty noisy)

You wont have many problems with the TD5 if you maintain it to a good level.

What ever brand you choose, please don't brush aside a Defender untill you drive one.

There is plenty (the same as other brands) of after market stuff out there for them. Doubt you will need a lift kit though.

TD5 110 and 90's have abs and traction control, I dont think the 130's have either abs or traction control.

I had a mild back problem with my previous vehicle (BA Falcon) as the seats were I swear designed to impress people for the 30 minutes they test drive them. With a Defender you sit more upright like a truck, and the seats are firm and to this day I still can't believe how comfortable they are.

This is the thread on the first time I took mine out. My first time out.

Looking at what Ive driven through since then, Ive no doubt I could have driven what I wrote about in that thread in high range 2/3 gear with no Centre diff lock.

Im not mechanically minded at all, so Ill leave that to other people. But I dont know why they are so good off road, but everything just works... VERY well.

Nissan/toyota boys will tell you they are crap because they leak oil... Yeah, they do.... like a tea spoon a year. Big deal.

They will also tell you they are slow... Well, they are, unless you chip the ECU (easy)

They will tell you they have poor fitting door panels, they do..............

[Xavie]

What are you planning on doing with it?

td5 vs 300..... jeez..... I prefer the 300 but the td5 has some great points to it.

All the mods you can get for those other vehicles you are looking at you can easily get for a 'Fender. Maybe except the dual wheel carrier but that can be made if you are super keen.

Your right Deefers are simple, that's why we buy them. ...maybe except for the latest model. If you want true simplicity you get the tdi 300.

How many km's is acceptable... That's really hard if not impossible to answer. I was searching for a disco recently with a tdi engine and I saw some which were in better condition then others which had only done 1/3rd the kilometers. You just have to pick the vehicle you like and take it to someone who knows landy's.

Can't recall if you said where you live but this should be taken in to account.

Also, importantly to some of us is the size. They are smaller then cruisers and patrols and it means some places you can get a Defender the others can't follow.

Fuel consumption is much better then the other vehicles your considering.

Don't worry about the ill fitting panels.... seriously it doesn't matter and they ain't that bad. If you were buying a lexus then I might say different.

I tell you one thing though. If you go for a test drive in a defender you will either feel like it is the right vehicle for you or not. Defenders in tdi and td5 have something that no other 4wd has.

And last is- this forum is so much better then all those other wannabe ones so if you want to stick around I guess you have to go with the Defender!

Xav

[Col.Coleman]

Mate need more info on what you intend to do with it and how often, but keep this in mind. Any vehicle that is well looked after and checked reguarly will prove reliable. I will probably be shot for this but if you plan on doing big k's maninly on tarmac a deefer is not going to be your bag. When the black stuff stops I wouldn't be in anything else. What other 4wd can you come home from a week on Moreton Island and just put the hose through the interior to clean it. No feet brushing when the kids pile in. Cover yourself in mud recovering your vehicle, salt water up to your armpits when launching your boat, just jump straight in and hose it out later. Fit checker and walk on the front wings to load unload the roof rack. Use the wings to cook lunch, rest your coffee, spread a map. easily stick your head out the window to see where your front wheel is. Load your vehicle up with all your stuff because it can take it. Did you know the payload on the others is very measly and by the time you fit all your add ons you are very close if not overweight and illegal and uninsured. Do the numbers. You can see all the corners of your vehicle is at all times. WHEEL ARTICULATION. Fuel economy. Off the road they just make sense. But if I'm just driving 1100 k somewhere and it's all bitumen, the subaru it is. If you drive it expecting the comfort levels of a car, you will hate it. BUT IT WILL GROW ON YOU. Italian bikes do the same. But when they are in their element nothing else beats them. I drive my 130 everyday for work, and play and go on long trips when I can, and it has served me well. There is a massive amount of stuff out there for them you just have to look in different places rather than the overhyped joints like ARB. They don't sell much for defenders for two reasons. they are that good standard they don't need much so there is not much money to be made. It's much easier to make and sell stuff to the drivers of other makes who need it. Take your time. work out what you REALLY need it for. What you do now not what you think or dream you will do and go from there. I would rather you bought something you were happy with than buy something that was not suitable, sold it and bagged it forever. Defenders are great, but need to be owned by even greater people, some people don't deserve them. Especially the ones who don't know how to wave.

The Colonel

[rick130]

<snip>

do they develop many rattles and bangs as the km pile on, also what is n acceptable amount of km on a 2nd hand one?

<snip>
nibbsy

Naa, they come pre-equipped with all the rattles and squeaks, saves you getting the poos when it happens further down the track......


Seriously, we have a GU Patrol (ute) and a Defender, so I'm possibly qualified to comment.

Build quality of the Land Rover is crap compared to the Japanese vehicles.
Simple basics like fit and finish are non existent on a Defender. If fit, finish, etc. are important to you, look elswhere.
Silly little niggly things fail, like door handle buttons, screws drop out, etc.

the boys above have touched on the engines. The 300Tdi goes fine once the turbo is spooled, but is a bit doughy off idle. Fuel economy is excellent. They are simple little engines and easy to service and maintain. The only major maintenance is timing belts every 80,000km and clutches last around 200-220,000km. Plates themselves don't seem to wear if the driver is doing his job, but the fingers on the pressure plate, and the clutch fork itself usually fail at around this mileage.
It is a relatively simple job to 'tickle' up the injector pump fuelling to give the Tdi better oomph than the Patrol TD42T yet still return better fuel economy.

On standard type tyres (235/85/16's) the driveline reliability is fine, although the front diff and g/box aren't as strong as a Patrol, the older model Salisbury diff (pre '03) would have the strongest centre of any 4x4 on the market, barring maybe the H260 in leaf sprung rear Patrols.

Axle flanges can be a problem with fretting in post '94 Defenders, as the axles are two piece (separate axle and drive flange) It's a relatively easy fix to convert the hubs to the older style oil lubricated wheel bearings (semi trailers use this style of lubrication too) and this fixes the problem, along with some Hy-Tough axles and flanges (formerly Maxi Drive)

33" tyres fit without a lift, I've been running 255/85's for years, and these are supposedly 33.3" tall new. (front end has been lifted about 40mm or so)

Out of the box, a Defender is probably more capable than any other 4x4 on the market, except a Wrangler Rubicon, and rides and handles off road better than a Patrol, although both vehicles can be easily modded for tougher off road use and then it's up to the driver.

I've had a lot more niggly problems with the Defender than the Patrol, but it was caned by the previous owner (Govt department) but it has never stuck me up. (except when the clutch fork broke, but I still drove it for two weeks without a clutch )
The GU has been the very model of reliable and quiet transport, has now clocked 280,000km and is need of a new rear axle seal (and bearings ) whch I think this is about the only thing I've had to do since new other than normal servicing.
The Defender has been a bit more 'involving' than that, but I still prefer to drive the Defender, and do every day as it's my work truck. I'm on call 24/7, so I need a reliable vehicle and the Defender fits my needs well.

[Scallops]

but if you plan on doing big k's maninly on tarmac a deefer is not going to be your bag.

The Colonel

Some great info here so far - but just wanted to add this - I have never driven a more comfortable vehicle all day, over 1000km, on bitumen - than my Defender. I guess it's each to their own, but I find the driving position and seating the most comfortable of anything I've ever driven - and as a Geophysicist I have driven many Jap rigs many km around this country, on and off road, as well as a variety of passenger cars. Just my 2 cents worth.

[rick130]

Some great info here so far - but just wanted to add this - I have never driven a more comfortable vehicle all day, over 1000km, on bitumen - than my Defender. I guess it's each to their own, but I find the driving position and seating the most comfortable of anything I've ever driven - and as a Geophysicist I have driven many Jap rigs many km around this country, on and off road, as well as a variety of passenger cars. Just my 2 cents worth.

Have to agree. I'm constantly amazed how well I jump out of the Defender after a trip.
Can't say the same for a Patrol, either GQ or GU. I usually can't walk when I get out of ours.

[rick130]

forgot to mention that GU Patrols with the TD42T up to about '04 have a reputation for overheating unless the radiator is scrupulously clean.
I can confirm this. They are a pain in the ****. A partial fix is to add more silicone fluid to the viscous fan clutch (obtained from a Toyota dealer of all places)
Later years fixed the problem (new radiator, which doesn't fit the earlier ones as they changed the crossmember as well, etc. ) although Nissan refuse to 'fess up to a problem