TD5 vs TDCi Under Bonnet Differences

[eksjay]

Just wondering if people who have had experience with both engine bays can summarise pluses and minuses of each donk and associated parts. Apart from the noise differences, are they similar in performance?

I guess Ford had its reasons for dropping its own powerplant into a Land Rover. Was it just the donk? What else changed? Was it an improvement over the Td5 or a step in the wrong direction?

BTW, what is that cup holder thingy to left of the engine? Dullbird, I saw it in one of your great pics! The brochure has a picture of the engine with some kind of bell type object in in the same vicinity as the cup holder - a pop-off valve???

One of the 4x4 mags took the Deefer out for a play in the Kimberly and suffered a couple of major breakages. Is this the result of LR mixing up Td5 bits with Ford bits, and two opposing bits not living happily together? IIRC, the Master brake cylinder was one such problemo. Has the vacuum seal issue been resolved with the 2009 model, or it the 2009 plate year, just a restamp on the 2007 edition?

[camel_landy]

Just wondering if people who have had experience with both engine bays can summarise pluses and minuses of each donk and associated parts. Apart from the noise differences, are they similar in performance?

The new Puma donk is significantly better than the old TD5. Loads more power and you can do loads more with the anti-stall feature. It also drives more like the good old TDi...

I guess Ford had its reasons for dropping its own powerplant into a Land Rover.

Yep...

Was it just the donk? What else changed? Was it an improvement over the Td5 or a step in the wrong direction?

More than just the donk... Basically, they've kept everything that's great about the Defender and changed the bits everyone kept complaining about:

• Build quality.
• Body work leaks.
• Ventilation & aircon.
• Noise.
• Seating.

IMO, I think the new Defender is great and I especially like the new engine & gearbox but there's still some of the old quirks there...

HTH

M

[Psimpson7]

I don't have a great deal of experience of the TDCI in the Defender, but as far as I am aware the main reason they used it was a cost saving over the TD5.

The TD5 was ok when the Dsicovery was using the larger percentage of them, but as soon as they were producing them just for the Defender it go too expensive and the Ford engine became the more viable option.

They both produce the same power, but the TDCI has more torque over a better range.

The TD5 at the moment is more tuneable and also easier to work on.

Rgds
Pete.

[Scallops]

The reason they changed engines was to satisfy environmental regulations - the TD5 was not EU4 compliant.

[isuzubob]

More than just the donk... Basically, they've kept everything that's great about the Defender and changed the bits everyone kept complaining about:

• Build quality.

M

[Slunnie]

Hmmm, I actually thought that the build of the new Defender went down! I was appalled at the amount of flex in the body with the one that I was looking at, especially around the doors into the back seats.

Power has remained unchanged at 90kw but torque is up - I'm sure the 6 speed helps here as I'm assuming by the torque/power changes that comes onto and then off the power faster than the TD5.

[dullbird]

it also has a variable turbo so no lag

[Psimpson7]

The reason they changed engines was to satisfy environmental regulations - the TD5 was not EU4 compliant.

And that goes straight back to cost. (I think)It was cheaper to modify teh TDCI to fit, than with its limited production keep improving the TD5 to meet EU standards.

[eksjay]

So what is with the cup holder under the bonnet to the left of the TDCi engine, and the picture in the brochure which shows what looks like a bell housing????

Dullbird, did you modify anything???

It is probably a burner for your bush cooking.

[BilboBoggles]

I have both a 2003 TD5 and 2 week old PUMA



In comparison - There are many things that are improved in the PUMA, and some things that I think are not quite as nice.

Some of the things i've noticed comparing the two.

1 - Chassis flex is the same - I've measured the chassis thickness and cannot see any difference in the two. Certainly the both make the same noises on my cross axle hill.

2 - The wing mirrors on the PUMA are much smaller than the TD5 - But also much better. (They are magnified on the PUMA - but flat on the TD5.)

3 - The rear body is constructed very differently. the PUMA has a steel cage under the floor - perhaps for the 7 seats. It looks quite different to the TD5. It's Much easier to put child restraints in a PUMA.

4 - There is slightly more plastic in the PUMA, the inner wheel arches on the TD5 are Galvanised, but the PUMA are plastic. There are plastic panels under the floor. I'm not to bothered by this as it's harder for plastic to rust.

5 - There is more rubbishy insulation in the PUMA engine bay - that I bet will shred over the years. Still it's easy to rip out.

6 - The ECU on the PUMA is mounted above the engine on the fire wall and appears to be very well water proofed. Therefore No oil in ECU as it's higher than the engine. And I bet it will ford better.

7 - The engine sound of the PUMA is not as nice as the TD5. But it goes so much better and smoother - no turbo lag, and it hammers.

8 - Traction Control - Well I think they did something to the PUMA as it's traction control seems to be better than the TD5. It's much smoother when cross axled... Perhaps it's just the different tyres.

9 - Fuel Economy. Not as good as the TD5, but very little in it.

10 - Seating - The TD5 was good - The PUMA is outstanding. Much more middle row room, the front seats are much better and the 6th and 7th seats in the rear are brilliant.

11 - Undersealing. This was one of my issues with the PUMA - there is no undersealing. I've covered mine with Tectyl wax - so we'll have to see how that holds up. Mind you at -160,000k's the TD5 underseal is gone in many places - And I'll probably do the TECTYL treatment on it soon.

12 - Minor changes - The bonnet stay on the PUMA is cheaper and less constructed than the PUMA - The rear tailgate hinges are not rebuildable on the PUMA.

13 - Build Quality. Within the 1st 1000k's my TD5 had shagged a rear diff, started the first of 17 visits to the dealer to rectify water leaks, had the gearbox rebuilt for the first of 3 times. I might book the PUMA in at 1000k's to have the window tint fixed up......

14 - The 2009 model - which is what mine is, seems to have all of the known issues fixed. The bonnet is modded to stop rubbing on the brake lines or fluid reservoir. The Vaccuum pump is the new modded type with a dual lip seal. The breather on the fuel tank is moved. The sump is modded. etc.

In Summary - I like the TD5, but the PUMA is much improved at least from my perspective.



RE The TD5 - from what I remembered - they scrapped the engine production plant back in 200XXX when they stopped using them in the Discovery. They stockpiled enough for the Defender for few years of production. I seem to recall they sold of the remaining crate engines a couple of year back.