Advice needed - lots of it

[gunsports]

Bear with me on this one please. I bought a 2.25 2a 109 diesel pickup, a '68 model and got it at a very good price. Originally I thought I had got hold of a bargain but as I started dismantling, I came upon quite a lot of damage: the front wings have extensive accident damage and I've chipped off body filler inches deep. The bonnet skin is cracked on the seams and the framework shot. I've got cracks on the fender panels. Back cross member needs replacing, doors are shot, the load bed is damaged and so on. It all can be fixed but at a cost of lots of time and money.

Heard about this other 'Rover that had been standing in a guy's back yard for 10 years. Went to look at it today. The car is dismantled and the engine, a six cylinder petrol's head is shot (water passages corroded away). Also, it is a series 3, leaf sprung model. But, its panels are perfect, with no accident damage. The diffs are ok I'm told and there is another 2 sets of 4 cyl diffs (according to the seller)

All the parts either missing or damaged from my car is present on this one and in excellent condition; no dents, hardly a scratch. Also, the price paid was such that I may as well have been wearing a mask and a gun. He tried to convert it from a 109 to an 88 and cut the chassis; found the job was harder than he thought and abandoned the project. Based just on the cost of replacing the essential missing parts on my car, excluding panels, I paid about 10% for this car compared to the best prices from a breaker's yard for replacements.

Now the questions. The panels look the same but will they interchange? Did the 6 cyl S3 come out with Salisbury diffs? Will the diffs and gear boxes interchange (there are three, plus transfer cases). Will the free wheel hubs from the S3 fit my car? Will the front axle hubs fit? I've often heard that the chassis, panels, parts etc of the S2 and 3 are the same but I need confirmation. Help please!

[JDNSW]

Now the questions. The panels look the same but will they interchange?

The six cylinder bulkhead is different, and the Series 3 and 2a bulkhead are different. The rest of the panels, while they have some differences, are interchangeable

Did the 6 cyl S3 come out with Salisbury diffs? Will the diffs and gear boxes interchange (there are three, plus transfer cases).

All lwb Series 3 had a salisbury diff. The bell housing is different between the four and the six and not interchangeable, and the clutch release is different between 3 and 2a, but can be modified either way. Transfer cases are interchangeable, and depending on the age of the one in your 2a, may be stronger. Four and six cylinder gearboxes are the same.


Will the free wheel hubs from the S3 fit my car?

No - 24 spline vs 10 spline drive axles, although you can swap the drive axles as well.

Will the front axle hubs fit?

Depending on the age of the Series 3, the hubs will fit, but note that your Series 2a should have 9/16 BSF wheel studs, where the S3 will have 16mm. You can fit the later hubs (with stub axle and bearings in the case of late S3) together with brake drums (and the six cylinder 3" wide brakes are a worthwhile improvement) or drill out your drums to fit the larger studs. Or you can fit the entire front axle assembly. (fitting the rear salisbury is no problem except you need a different prop shaft, and the six cylinder one is different)

I've often heard that the chassis, panels, parts etc of the S2 and 3 are the same but I need confirmation. Help please!

Differences between S2 and S3 panels -
Bulkhead and windscreen are different but can be interchanged (with dashboard etc) together.

Mudguards have some differences but are interchangeable but note difference in headlight position for earlier S2a.

Just about everything else in the bodywork is the same or interchangeable.

Mechanically, lwb S3 had salisbury diff, all S3 had different wheel studs, late S3 different wheel bearings and hubs, all lwb S3 and late swb have 24 spline drive axles (outer end only), different gearbox and clutch mechanism (but can be swapped).

Chassis is interchangeable with very minor detail differences.

The other thing to watch is the differences between the six and the four - the six has the engine further back; this means different prop shafts, different bulkhead, floor panels gear lever etc. The six has wider front brakes, worth fitting.

Hope this helps,

John

[tony]

G'day cobber

Mate everything will swap over onto your SII, even the rear cross member will fit (to re-place your rusty one)

Don't know about SA but the 6cyl SIII had the Salisbury under the back here, apart from that the diffs are the same as your SII, theres no difference between the II & III ratio wise, you could put the diffs straight under your II, the Salisbury would be a better option than the rover diff in any case.

The gear box in the II is a crash box (no sync rows) the III has syncrowmesh nicer box to drive but not as strong as the II, the gear box's and T'cases will all bolt up to each other an the III's box will bolt into your
II.
As for the freewheeling hubs, (theres a lot of opinions ) and this ones just mine ...I would not put them onto a series land rover, I don't think theres any benefit, and because the Cv is a tractor joint (UJ joint) I think it would get the lube it needs ...

Have you thought about just swapping chassis ? putting the whole body and runing gear onto your SII chassis,

Tony

[Blknight.aus]

they will all swap, some bits like the gearboxes will need additional work. The 6pot gearbox has a different bell housing bolt pattern on the flywheel end but with a little work you can cross the bellhousing and clutch release mech from any 2/2a/3 box with any other.

90% of the panels will just bolt straight over but its not legal to put the series 2 type wings onto a series III due to the change in the lights position, the other way is fine (I did it to kermit so I could get 2 sets of driving lights up the front).

***edit***

and I'll back tony's remarks regarding the diffs, freewheeling hubs and chassis work but the series II boxes had syncro on 3rd and 4th

[Aaron IIA]

the Cv is a tractor joint (UJ joint) I think it would get the lube it needs ...

A universal joint is not constant velocity. A tracta joint is not a universal joint. A tracta joint is constant velocity. This era of Land Rover uses universal joints (the same style as in the propellor shafts) hence why the steering wheel fights when turning on firm surfaces in four wheel drive.

Aaron.

[tony]

A universal joint is not constant velocity. A tracta joint is not a universal joint. A tracta joint is constant velocity. This era of Land Rover uses universal joints (the same style as in the propellor shafts) hence why the steering wheel fights when turning on firm surfaces in four wheel drive.

Aaron.

Hi Aaron, I know there not cv joints but to someone who knows modern vehicles it would point them to the right item,

Now I did think the UJ's were also called Tractor joints, I maybe wrong here but isent the UJ a constant velocity joint hence a tractor joint


Tony

[Blknight.aus]

a Uj (aka a hookes joint) (spelling)is only constant velocity if it has a 0 degree of inclination.

as you indroduce angular drive through the Uj due to the nature of the beast as the shaft turns through 180 degrees it accelerates and decelerates. The average speed of the shaft over a number of rotations is always the same. the larger the angle the larger the velocity change

the reason this happens is to do with the distance that the bearing points of the cross have to travel in relation to both drive flanges without getting into all of the uber technical details if you look at it from one flanges perspective as the shaft turns the "unmounted" bearings (the ones on the other flange) not only go round and round with the shaft but they also move in and out. The same thing applies to the driven side of the joint but the relevent bearings change over.

A Constant velocity joint doesnt suffer from this due to the design not having a fixed cross but a floating center and 5 (or more) driving balls in a race so while the balls move about in the race while being driven at an angle the center also moves so the acceleration and decelleration of the balls is done only by the balls as they are not physically constrained in the same way as a UJ bearing is.

Trust me on this....

why it happens makes absolutely no sense untill you grab hold of a UJ and a CV and put them side by side and drive them through an angle and watch the movement of the components. When you do that you will just look at it and give it "Eureka, Why couldn't I understand that before?"

[gunsports]

Thanks for confusing all hell out of me!

[Olive Drab]

the list of jobs you have there sounds about normal for a 2a. it becomes even more fun when the previous owner used it on the beach and never cleaned underneath it.
Good luck hope it all goes well

boersons rie bakkies

[Aaron IIA]

Have a look at these to sites.

FWD Fundamentals, Larry Carley, Counterman, February 1999

Figure 28-7. Tracta Constant Velocity Joint.

They should clear it up.

Aaron.