td5 or new 4 cyl which is better

[awest130]

what are the pros and cons of both these motors. do the new motors have a better spread of power than the td5.any probs to look for with the new motor or am I better sticking with the td5.

[Psimpson7]

Search will bring up a lot of threads. There is a lot more to it than just the engine. There are a lot of changes.

Some people seem to be having a lot of issues with the Puma Defenders, but some dont seem to have any, in the same way that some people had lots of issues with the TD5 (Espcially at the start) and some had none.

If its a second hand one you are looking at I would personally go for a late TD5 over an early puma, but if you can afford a new 09 Puma I reckon that should be a good buy.

The newer ones seem to have a few issues that the TD5 era ones didnt. stuff like Diff problems and so on.

Sure both will give you good service.

[one_iota]

I can't do a back to back comparison with a Td5 as this is my first Defender...however I'll give you my view of the Puma engine:

1. It's a new motor and therefore comes with a 3 year 100,000 km warranty

2. The engine is well matched to the 6 speed transmission and with the torque band it sits comfortably and quietly at the maximum speed limit.

3. Turbo lag is not detectable (the Tdi was almost comatose below 1800 rpm).

4. Fuel consumption is reasonable for the performance. I get 11l/100km in the city but have had 10l/100km on long hauls at highway speeds.

5. In low range the whole package performs remarkably well. The Traction Control and Anti-stall coupled with a very low first means that it will crawl its way out of tight spots with out much intervention from the driver.

I think that the Td5 sounds better and from all reports has proven itself to be a fine engine all other things being equal.

The reliability thing is always questioned and some of us have had a better run than others. There are pages of threads here dealing with the puma faults so spend some time reading up.

I have come to the conclusion rightly or wrongly that we Defender owners are a conservative lot harbouring a deep mistrust of any change to the previous model and claiming that ours was the last true Defender/Land Rover and that the marque has gone to the dogs....but if change is what it takes to keep the marque alive then bring on change.

[Yorkshire_Jon]

what are the pros and cons of both these motors. do the new motors have a better spread of power than the td5.any probs to look for with the new motor or am I better sticking with the td5.

A proper open ended question if ever there was one!!

As others have said a lot changed and its not just the engine that needs to be considered.

However, as the questions specifically relates to the engine... The TD5 is the better engine, of that Im sure. Thats not to say its the "best" Defender though!!

When I bought my last Defender (in 2007) I could have had the last of the TD5's or a new Puma - I went for the last of the TD5.

If I could buy a brand new TD5 now with all the benefits of warrenty etc etc or a Puma - Id still buy the TD5. The fact is though that times move on and if you can afford a new motor, the PUMA would be the one to get due to the warrenty and all the other benefits a new motor gives. If you looking for a car a few years old though, then Id hunt out a nice, cared for TD5.

Regards,
Jon

[Jock The Rock]

I have come to the conclusion rightly or wrongly that we Defender owners are a conservative lot harbouring a deep mistrust of any change to the previous model and claiming that ours was the last true Defender/Land Rover and that the marque has gone to the dogs....but if change is what it takes to keep the marque alive then bring on change.

Haha you are very rightly

Get a 300 Tdi they are the best

[tempestv8]

I have driven both the TD5 Defender and recently a PUMA Defender.

I *much* prefer the PUMA motor over the TD5, assuming both are stock. The Ford Transit diesel is just that much more refined and does not have the turbo lag that is so noticeable on the TD5.

The TD5 has a very "angry" engine note, which I find a bit tiring. The Ford motor seems more like an "old school" diesel, which has a faintly reassuring clatter about it. It just *sounds* more reliable, if that concept, as stupid as it sounds, can be grasped.

The 6 speed gearbox is based on the Disco 3 manual gearbox, and might even be stronger than the TD5's 5 speed gearbox, since the later gearbox is mated to much more powerful engines in the Discovery 3 range compared to the relatively underpowered V8 and TD5 in the Discovery II range.

I'm not a believer of "newer, therefore must be better" school of thinking, but I would rather buy a new Puma than a used TD5 simply because of the way the motor feels when driving it.

This is my perspective as a Disco II V8 auto owner.

[tempestv8]

I was chatting to a Defender TD5 owner who has had his vehicle since new back in 1999. He has test driven the Puma Defender and he too shares my views, i.e. he prefers the new Puma motor because it doesn't have the very noticeable turbo lag that his TD5 has.

He is a Land Rover enthusiast through and through.

So that's one more real vote for the Puma :-)

[SVX37]

A proper open ended question if ever there was one!!

As others have said a lot changed and its not just the engine that needs to be considered.

However, as the questions specifically relates to the engine... The TD5 is the better engine, of that Im sure. Thats not to say its the "best" Defender though!!

When I bought my last Defender (in 2007) I could have had the last of the TD5's or a new Puma - I went for the last of the TD5.

If I could buy a brand new TD5 now with all the benefits of warrenty etc etc or a Puma - Id still buy the TD5. The fact is though that times move on and if you can afford a new motor, the PUMA would be the one to get due to the warrenty and all the other benefits a new motor gives. If you looking for a car a few years old though, then Id hunt out a nice, cared for TD5.

Regards,
Jon

Hi Jon,

Have you ever compared the 2 motors off road, low range, first gear, going up an incline? Serious turbo lag leads to stalling...check the threads too. The Puma is superior in this test. Along with being more driveable on road, with 6 gears at less revs and less noise. I like the TD5 - had a Series 2 Disco... but when all is considered, the better motor is the Puma IMHO.

Cheers,

[Blknight.aus]

much of a muchness..

the tech level of the engines is the same.

the td5 has grown up so its teething problems are over and the common faults and cures known.

the same should be said for the puma as its just a hacked transit donk. BUT that aint the case things are happening to the rover version of the rover version of the engine that just aint happening in the vans BUT the reverse isnt true, some of the things that turn up in the vans are turning up in the rover version.

there are also many things that are changed with the vehicle that arent strictly related to the engine but because they were changed when the engine changed are credited with being "a puma fault" or "a td5 fault"

are you specifically asking about the engine OR the vehicles to which that engine is mounted?

[Captain_Rightfoot]

We bought our TD5 new in 2005. I like the Puma. The main reason is that it's a bit quieter, has a 6 speed box, and has better AC. However our chipped TD5 has massively more power than a PUMA and it has the front vent flaps which I love.

All in all it's not enough to make me trade up. However if I was looking to buy now and could afford a new one I'd probably go the PUMA. Equally, buying a near new TD5 (maybe under still under warranty) would also be a good call as you could use the saved money for fruit.

Therein lies a problem I have with new vehicles - that is they are just a starting point. IE most people will fit numerous options to them - many of which are useful if you are going to use the car for touring. You should consider that when looking at a used TD5 with all the fruit as compared to a new PUMA that is a blank canvas.

IMHO the few niggles we are seeing now I expected. However I also think that they will overcome these and the things that I like about the td5 as in easy modification and electronic diagnosis tools will also come in time.