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Thread: Can someone please educate an ignorant newcomer?

  1. #1
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    Can someone please educate an ignorant newcomer?

    What exactly is a 'forward controls' Landy?

    The photos show snub nosed vehicles but what defines one and why were they developed?

  2. #2
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    While the 101 Forward Control Military Land Rover is well known amongst enthusiasts, it is somewhat less well known that the Australian Army conducted trials of the Series 2A FC and 2B FC Land Rovers on a number of occasions at the Army Design Establishment (ADE). It is also thought that both the RAAF and Navy had some examples of this type as well, with the Navy thought to have used one as a Fire Tender.

    Two SIIA (4cyl petrol and 6cyl petrol) and one SIIB 6cyl were trialled and rejected by the Australian Army

    The first example, A Series 2A FC, is thought to have been on trial in the 1962/63 Tropical Trials and appears in the 1962/63 Tropical Trials report, Volume 4 (which we do not have a full copy of at this stage).

    Certainly Glen S photos from 6 Tropical Trials Unit's evaluations in 1964 show another example which differs in a number of details from it's predecessor despite wearing the same registration number. It is thought to be a different vehicle.

    Below is some general history of the civilian Forward Control Models.

    1963 Land Rover released it's first Forward control. based on the 109" chassis with extended spring hangers and a modified rear cross member. Similar chassis were also used for the 109" military variants in Australia.
    1964 the Rover type rear differential is replaced with an ENV because of failures.
    1965 the 6 cylinder model and ENV front diff introduced
    1966 the series IIB model is introduced with a 4" wider track classified as a 110" wheelbase and has under slung rear axle assembly.
    1972 101" military variant introduced with Range Rover based engine and transmission (Series IIB essentially finishes except for a SADF contract ending in 1978)
    1978 production of the 101" ceases.
    About 3,000 SIIA Forward Controls and 3,000 SIIB forward controls were produced, only tens or maybe hundreds made their way to Australia.
    two SIIA (4cyl petrol and 6cyl petrol) one SIIB 6cyl were trialled and rejected by the Australian Army.
    Retrieved from REMLR.com

  3. #3
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    Fair enough, but what did they do? Did they just move the cab (and hence the controls) forward over the motor? And what did they hope to achieve by doing so? The photos I've seen show a cab forward of the front wheels which suggests a sort of normal chassis with a cabin located in front of where you'd expect it.

    Sorry if I'm appearing dense, though I am feeling a bit dense with this.

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    The cab moved forward which meant they adjusted the front of the chassis to suit this.
    As far as I am aware the reason was for a bigger load carrying capacity.
    They had to put different linkages on top of the gearbox as the gear stick was forward as well.
    The motor actually sit under/behind the cab.

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  6. #6
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    Some more info about forward controls Land Rover Forward Controls

  7. #7
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    The Series 2a forward control was simply an attempt to provide a Landrover with greater carrying capacity (It was rated at 2 tons compared to the 109 bonneted model at 3/4 ton) while using a minimum of new parts (Rover was only a small company).

    It was a modest success, with a number of problems. The major problem was that while Rover saw it as a road vehicle with usefulness on soft ground such as building sites, buyers assumed it would go anywhere that their normal Landrover would go. This showed up an embarrassing tendency to lie down on its side, resulting from the much higher centre of gravity on the same track. And on the road, the 2.25 engine barely provided even the performance expected in the 1960s from commercial vehicles.

    The 2b forward control solved many of the problems, with the six cylinder engine, and a wider track, but at the expense of commonality with other Landrovers. While it looked as if it was a sales success, the sales rate was below the cut-off numbers for a separate model laid down by the new owners of the company (Leyland) and production ceased in 1972.

    There appear to have been 3,193 2a FCs and 2305 2b FCs built. They were never common in Australia, although it was not uncommon to see them about in the mid sixties when they first appeared. Almost all were bought by commercial enterprises who ran them into the ground, scrapped them, and found something else. As a result, they are quite uncommon today, and not many look for them, partly because they are generally impractical for private owners except perhaps as a motor home, but also because the parts that are different from the standard models tend to be hard to find - even the correct size tyres (9.00x16) are virtually unobtainable.

    The completely unrelated 101FC is today much more common because it was sold only to the military, and was then sold by various armed forces to the civilian market in relatively large numbers at about the same time, while still in good condition.

    John
    John

    JDNSW
    1986 110 County 3.9 diesel
    1970 2a 109 2.25 petrol

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    Thanks. What an intriguing part of Land Rover history.

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    A 101 Forward Control.

    And here's a shot of my 101 Forward Control. In STD form they have a Rover 3.5 V8, coupled to an LT95 (early Range Rover) 4 speed gearbox. They're full time four wheel drive with a lockable center differential (like Defenders and Discovery's). There were only 2667 units (+ or -) built, and they were only ever available to the military.. I believe 50 came to Oz, tho Mick Marsh would have a better idea as he has 3! Mine is a Brit, who arrived here a few yrs ago in a fairly average but complete state. It came to me with a knackered V8 and on some average tyres. Since then, I've fitted the Cummins 5.9 turbo diesel and 5 speed, made a new bumper, made new twin fuel tanks incorporating the batteries and air tank, made a twin rear wheel carrier, built a sleeping platform, and fitted a Detroit Locker. Its far from std, looks smart, and goes like hell!! There are 4 that I know of here in SA, one of which is undergoing a mammoth resto south of the city..
    Attached Images Attached Images

  10. #10
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    As Sitec says, the 101 was designed for the military, and was originally described as a gun tractor. Part of the design brief was a powered trailer, resulting in the LT95 gearbox/transfer case being unique in that it has a PTO with the same speed as the rear prop shaft output in both high and low range. (This was later used to drive the third axle in the Perentie 6x6.)

    The powered trailer turned out to be impractical (think about a trailer at a wide angle to the towing vehicle, trying to push the back of it sideways when the front wheels are what is stuck!) and very few were built, let alone actually used.

    The 101 has to be thought of as a completely stand alone design, that shares the engine and transmission with the early Rangerovers, and has no relation other than the same manufacturer to the Series Landrovers.

    Still a fascinating vehicle, and even a bit more practical than the 2a and 2b FC Landrovers for a private owner.

    John
    John

    JDNSW
    1986 110 County 3.9 diesel
    1970 2a 109 2.25 petrol

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