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Thread: Series II & III Brake Master Cylinders

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
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    4511
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    18,282

    Series II & III Brake Master Cylinders

    I am having brake issues as some are already aware

    all new parts

    but

    i cant get a full brake pedal, i have to pump three times to get hard pedal somewhere near the top half of the pedal stroke

    the setup is

    series iii 109" 4cyl suffix e front diff
    series ii 88" rear diff
    4cyl 109" 1" bore CV style master cyl

    so i wander thru the parts books tonite and find the following

    Series II Master Cyl 88" CB 520849 with spacer 516410
    Series II Master Cyl 109" 4cyl CB 520850 with spacer 523084
    Series III Master Cyl 88" & 109" CV 90569128 with spacer 564944

    so there is 3 different spacers to go with the 3 different master cyls....

    I would have thought that the difference in spacer width could be made up with adj on the push rod..

    any collective wisdom available on the matter?

    i am also experiencing the front shoes/drums tightening up which has me scratching my head as well...

    related?

    back brakes seem trouble free.
    143901065 88" SII Basic " Madge" | 1988 RRC Portifino Red "LeeLoo" | 1995 Defender 130 T'cab
    1996 300TDi Auto D1 Mrs Inc's DD |
    "TowTent" Viscount Gazelle 3.9m |"Monty" 03 BA Ford Fairmont DD

    "Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." -- a warning from Adolf Hitler
    "If you don't have a sense of humour, you probably don't have any sense at all!" -- a wise observation by someone else
    'If everyone colludes in believing that war is the norm, nobody will recognize the imperative of peace." -- Anne Deveson

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Brisvegas
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    2,393
    No idea, other than offering to come up and give you a hand to methodically go through it all, and see what the hickup is.

    Are they new front flex lines?

    CC

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
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    4511
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    one is, the other was fine
    143901065 88" SII Basic " Madge" | 1988 RRC Portifino Red "LeeLoo" | 1995 Defender 130 T'cab
    1996 300TDi Auto D1 Mrs Inc's DD |
    "TowTent" Viscount Gazelle 3.9m |"Monty" 03 BA Ford Fairmont DD

    "Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." -- a warning from Adolf Hitler
    "If you don't have a sense of humour, you probably don't have any sense at all!" -- a wise observation by someone else
    'If everyone colludes in believing that war is the norm, nobody will recognize the imperative of peace." -- Anne Deveson

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Brisbane,Qld.
    Posts
    1,159
    Hi Inc,

    Have you tried clamping off the flex lines to try and track down exactly where the issue is?

    TimJ.
    "Clancy" - 1978 Series III SWB Game.
    "Henry' - 1976 Trayback Ute with 186 Holden
    "Gumnut" - 1953 Series I 80"
    "Poverty" - 1958 Series I 88"
    "Arnie" - 1975 710M Pinzgauer

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timj View Post
    Hi Inc,

    Have you tried clamping off the flex lines to try and track down exactly where the issue is?

    TimJ.
    Thats the next port of call, i just need to buy a couple of suitable clamps as i dont have anything suitable
    143901065 88" SII Basic " Madge" | 1988 RRC Portifino Red "LeeLoo" | 1995 Defender 130 T'cab
    1996 300TDi Auto D1 Mrs Inc's DD |
    "TowTent" Viscount Gazelle 3.9m |"Monty" 03 BA Ford Fairmont DD

    "Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." -- a warning from Adolf Hitler
    "If you don't have a sense of humour, you probably don't have any sense at all!" -- a wise observation by someone else
    'If everyone colludes in believing that war is the norm, nobody will recognize the imperative of peace." -- Anne Deveson

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Central West NSW
    Posts
    20,305
    That is what I was going to suggest! Brakes tightening up is usually incorrect adjustment of the pushrod, but you would expect that to apply to both front and rear.

    The other possibility is that for some reason the shoes are not sitting straight, that is, tipped sideways. Series three should not have adjustable shoe supports, so the only way I can think of that this could happen is if the springs are assembled incorrectly so as to pull the shoes away from the backing plate rather than towards them.

    John
    John

    JDNSW
    1986 110 County 3.9 diesel
    1970 2a 109 2.25 petrol

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDNSW View Post
    but you would expect that to apply to both front and rear.
    my feelings as well....
    Quote Originally Posted by JDNSW View Post
    The other possibility is that for some reason the shoes are not sitting straight, that is, tipped sideways. Series three should not have adjustable shoe supports, so the only way I can think of that this could happen is if the springs are assembled incorrectly so as to pull the shoes away from the backing plate rather than towards them.
    am getting contact across the full face of the shoe and drum judging by the shiny bits

    have triple checked the springs and if they are wrong i cant pick it...

    unless maybe they are weak?

    hmmmmmmm
    143901065 88" SII Basic " Madge" | 1988 RRC Portifino Red "LeeLoo" | 1995 Defender 130 T'cab
    1996 300TDi Auto D1 Mrs Inc's DD |
    "TowTent" Viscount Gazelle 3.9m |"Monty" 03 BA Ford Fairmont DD

    "Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." -- a warning from Adolf Hitler
    "If you don't have a sense of humour, you probably don't have any sense at all!" -- a wise observation by someone else
    'If everyone colludes in believing that war is the norm, nobody will recognize the imperative of peace." -- Anne Deveson

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Central West NSW
    Posts
    20,305
    Quote Originally Posted by incisor View Post
    my feelings as well....


    am getting contact across the full face of the shoe and drum judging by the shiny bits

    have triple checked the springs and if they are wrong i cant pick it...

    unless maybe they are weak?

    hmmmmmmm
    It is possible to overstretch them trying to install the shoes - look for unevenly spaced turns.

    A check whether the brakes are binding due to hydraulic pressure or something at the wheel - when the brake is binding, crack the bleeder - if it squirts then dribbles, the problem is hydraulic pressure, almost certainly the master cylinder. (either pushrod adjustment, sticking piston, or faulty cylinder.

    A piossible cause for all your problems could be contaminated brake fluid that has caused swollen seals preventing free movement on both wheel cylinders and master cylinder.

    Hope this helps,

    John
    John

    JDNSW
    1986 110 County 3.9 diesel
    1970 2a 109 2.25 petrol

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Bundaberg, Queensland
    Posts
    2,102

    Brake Snails?

    G'day All,

    I have read a couple of threads where people have referred to "brake Snails". I was looking for some brake parts on eBay and came across the photograph of "brake adjusters". Would this be the wee beasties that people are calling "brake snails" - they sorta look like snails to me .

    I suppose if restoring a Series 3 one could assume that these need to be replaced? How does one tell if they are worn - since if the photograph is of brake snails I have not seen them before in the flesh so to speak. Well I have seen real snails in the flesh I have four of them in my fish tank cleaning the tank walls.

    Kind Regards
    Lionel
    Attached Images Attached Images

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    East-South-East Girt-By-Sea
    Posts
    17,673
    Yep them thar brake snails.

    You need to look if the posts are sloppy but mostly the little knotches on ther outside of the cam are work off.

    Some people don't like the replacements, but make sure you loctite the thread.

    You won't find me on: faceplant; Scipe; Infragam; LumpedIn; ShapCnat or Twitting. I'm just not that interesting.

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