Dislocate or Retain?

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Originally Posted by Dougal

It's nothing like a coilover.
Coilovers use stacked springs to get a spring curve which transitions smoothly from a softer rate to a stiffer one. Basically long and customisable spring progression.

The X thing is just a second spring to push your old one back onto it's seat. They're saying 500lb force when seated and 10 inches of suspension. That works out to 50lb/in spring rate on the internal springs which has a step transition to the 200+ lb/in of your main springs.

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Originally Posted by Dougal

I did read that. 50lb/in rate on the lower springs. Which means the lower wheel can have 0-500lb on it while the other side has roughly 1500-2000lb.
A fraction better than dislocated, but not better than using the right springs.

Their sales speil is rather one sided with the discussion of longer springs, the ones used in their video look particularly short and stiff.



Any coilover which runs one coil bound will feel horrible. Who actually runs them like that?

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Google Eibach 'tender springs'

They are a trapezoidal shaped coil that is designed to be run coil bound. They are an adjunct to the main coil/s and play no part in 'normal' suspension duties.
They've been around for at least twenty years and are designed to do exactly what Slunnie is talking about, load an unladen wheel when you've run out of main spring in droop.

The off-road boys have been using them to my knowledge since the eighties, and even some circuit racers used them from time to time. (if running droop)

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Originally Posted by PAT303

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Originally Posted by Dougal

I've yet to actually see a practice which didn't follow the theory. There are always people who claim there are, but it's usually because they don't know or understand the theory.

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I can name one.In the D/gas thread you claim that gas causes detonation in diesel engines and had plenty of ''facts'' to proove it yet myself and another member have had it fitted for alot of K's yet have never had detonation.If you want lots of theory work with engineers,if you want facts see the bloke with dirty hands. Pat

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Completely off topic Pat, but I have a video showing this detonation on gas. Hence it has been proven.

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Originally Posted by uninformed

do you mean retained springs, which do not unseat, and use the whole stroke (of shock/travel) are far better unretained ?

Serg

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Umm, err, you've just worded a sentence in such a way I'm not sure how to answer it.
If you chop the last word off, then that's exactly what I'm saying. The last word makes it a bit unclear.

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Originally Posted by rick130

Google Eibach 'tender springs'

They are a trapezoidal shaped coil that is designed to be run coil bound. They are an adjunct to the main coil/s and play no part in 'normal' suspension duties.
They've been around for at least twenty years and are designed to do exactly what Slunnie is talking about, load an unladen wheel when you've run out of main spring in droop.

The off-road boys have been using them to my knowledge since the eighties, and even some circuit racers used them from time to time. (if running droop)

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Thanks for that. Mountainspeed sold a three stage mountainbike fork spring kit which used flat wound tender springs and was made by Eibach. But that was 1997 and I haven't met anyone who bought them or rode them.

Anyone using them off the race-track?

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Originally Posted by lambrover

I am with discowhite and cals county. Look how flat discowhites truck sits.

I haven't spent the money that disco white has spent on his suspension (allthough I would love to) For my relocation cones I used my old front shock turrents and cut them down and put them in upside down. Can't remember who sugested using longer coils but it's not really that easy you get coil binding which disco white has mentioned plus your ride height will increase too much and your COG being to high. So being that I spent no money to make my relocation cones I have no motive to say they work even if they don't.

Jap trucks and jeeps to get the hight of the ground need big lifts so they have much longer coils, so they don't really need dislocating coils.

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i spent 3tenths of bugger all on my relocation cones;) think the steel cost me $20...
i build almost 90% of the stuff i put on my trucks myself, as i believe that aftermarket stuff, while good for most isnt quite up to scratch for individual needs/trucks. every truck is differant.
oh and its cheaper too

cheers phil

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Originally Posted by Dougal

Completely off topic Pat, but I have a video showing this detonation on gas. Hence it has been proven.

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uumm No, you have a video of you shoving your BBQ hose up your isuzu wich only proves you Know how to stuff up a BBQ and nothing else

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Originally Posted by Dougal

Umm, err, you've just worded a sentence in such a way I'm not sure how to answer it.
If you chop the last word off, then that's exactly what I'm saying. The last word makes it a bit unclear.

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sorry I missread your post on the last page, just reread it and makes sense :eek:woops

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Originally Posted by uninformed

discowhite,

have you tried retaining your current set up to see how much flex you loose and how it feels offroad?

Serg

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ive been wanting to do this for ages, just ahve to re wire/install the haltec in the ute, sort out a hi angle DEc front shaft and finish off the new shocks.

there will be something, watch this space.
maybe someone on the ''retained'' side should do the same test so its seen as me fudging the results to suit my beliefs?

cheers phil

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Originally Posted by discowhite

i spent 3tenths of bugger all on my relocation cones;) think the steel cost me $20...
i build almost 90% of the stuff i put on my trucks myself, as i believe that aftermarket stuff, while good for most isnt quite up to scratch for individual needs/trucks. every truck is differant.
oh and its cheaper too

cheers phil

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definitly agree with you here phil,

regarding your 107, can you tell me:
how long are the rear TA's from center chassis bush to center of axle bush (straight line)

how long is each A frame arm , bush to bush, straight line again

does your truck use the factory chassis mounting points for both the TA's and the A frame?

cheers,
Serg

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Originally Posted by discowhite

ive been wanting to do this for ages, just ahve to re wire/install the haltec in the ute, sort out a hi angle DEc front shaft and finish off the new shocks.

there will be something, watch this space.
maybe someone on the ''retained'' side should do the same test so its seen as me fudging the results to suit my beliefs?

cheers phil

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I have, my results were overwhelmingly more articulation from running the rear of the ute retained - BUT, every setup is different and I wouldn't expect you to get the same results as your truck is different. I do think that you will get a different result between the 90 and ute, but it will be interesting to see if what type of change there will be - if any.

factory mounts for all,
A frame arms are 760mm center of bush to center of ball joint, straight line.
TA's are 930mm center of chassis bush to center of diff bush.
measurements are close, 5-6mm +/-.
both A frame and TA's cranked, at its current lift the diff and ball joint are as per stock.

cheers phil